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WPI Letter to Dr McClure ****

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by VillageLife, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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    I think that the WPI sent Kuppeweld positive samples and it was these that he tested to validate his technique.

    However, the WPI letter does state they received samples from Kuppeweld in which they did detect XMRV.

    This implies that Kuppeweld's technique was able to find XMRV in the WPI's samples but not in his own.

    It also implies that the WPI was able to find XMRV in both their samples and Kuppeweld's.

    The question is now: did Kuppeweld include the samples he sent to the WPI in his own study?
  2. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    Good point V99. I missed that (hey, I haven't slept!). That means either that there are still other problems with the Dutch methodology (relative to WPI's) or that the patient or patients samples in question were ultimately excluded from the Dutch study.

    Gerwyn:
    And yet the WPI apparently found XMRV in a few of those samples..
  3. Alexia

    Alexia Senior Member

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    I've read in this link that Ortho a Dutch magazine called Judy to clarify if they had found XMRV in samples sent by Dr Kuppeveld and she said on a phone interview that the WPI received seven samples from Dr. K. and 3 were positive!! Later she was told that 2 samples were from ME patients and one was from a control healthy person.

    The link from the Ortho http://www.ortho.nl/bestanden/artikelen/ortho102laatstenieuwsxmrvb.pdf
    This article is interesting, I'm just too tired to translated everything.. Judy also states that Dr. K. didn't follow the methods WPI advises even if they had requested the information to do so from the WPI.
  4. Alexia

    Alexia Senior Member

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    Hi Maarten, No it was not me you must be confusing me with somebody else. I speak Dutch, my husband is Dutch.
  5. Knackered

    Knackered Guest

    I hope not! ;)
  6. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I for one will not rely on this source.
  7. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    The orthomoleculair web site
  8. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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    I think ESME may be publishing a translation later on today. I'll post it here if no-one beats me to it in the meantime.
  9. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    As I remember, it the "controls" for the original Dutch study (for which the blood was original collected for) were supplied by the patients. They were relatives, friends etc of the patients.

    If three samples were sent to the WPI and all three were positive, then I would not be entirely surprised.

    The question would be over where the "non CFS" one came from and how close a friend/relative of the patient?
  10. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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    Ortho article translation

    Sorry, it's Google translate again, but it gives the gist of it.

    [Quote starts]

    Gendringen -16 April 2010. Researchers at UMC St. Radboud were published in February in the blood of Dutch patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) no XMRV virus have been found. But she concealed that American investigators in blood samples from the same patients, this retrovirus have found.

    This appears from a letter Annette Whittemore, chief of the Whittemore-Peterson Institute (WPI) in Reno, on Monday, April 12 sent to Dr. Myra McClure. (1) The latter is retro virology professor at Imperial College London and one of the authors of the first negative 'replication studies' to XMRV infection in ME / CFS. (2) In its letter inviting McClure from Whittemore to cooperate with the WPI in the investigation of XMRV. They also fold out of the school over the other two negative replication studies published to date, including those of the UMC St. Radboud.

    Email Correspondence

    The Nijmegen experimental virologist Dr. Frank Kuppeveld internist and Prof. Jos van der Meer took earlier this year in frozen blood from 1991-1992 of 32 Dutch CFS no trace of XMRV. In the blood of 43 healthy control subjects, the retrovirus is not detected. They published their findings online in late February the British Medical Journal. (3)

    In her letter indicates that the WPI Whittemore, however, at the request of Van Kuppeveld, some blood samples from the Dutch cohort study has tested before the Nijmegen study was completed. The WPI found traces of it XMRV. Whittemore says about email correspondence that shows that disposal of Kuppeveld was aware of the WPI research results before they have negative studies published. In his scientific publication, however, no mention of cooperation with WP1. (3) The editors of Ortho On April 14 Annette Whittemore asked for a copy of the email traffic in Nijmegen, but this request has not (yet) accepted.

    Whittemore wrote in her letter that further Kuppeveld From the WPI has called for a positive blood sample and reagents, in order to determine whether its testing procedures were able to find XMRV in positive blood. The WPI was responding to this question. Whittemore's letter asks why Kuppeveld From his research has not made use of these materials.

    Confirmation

    Annette Whittemore's letter raises many questions about the Nijmegen XMRV research. The most pressing question is whether the reading of Kuppeveld Whittemore can confirm? And if so, how many blood samples from the Nijmegen cohort study were sent to Reno, and that number by the WPI tested positive? And last but not least, why the Nijmegen researchers did not mention this in all languages in and around their research published in the British Medical Journal?

    Last Wednesday announced the editors of Ortho by phone at Van Kuppeveld virologist, after his first letter from Annette Whittemore to have emailed. During the telephone conversation which followed, gave the virologist to this letter not previously have had to face. From Kuppeveld said in the short term response: "I will first have the letter and reduce admin-at least there with my colleagues to talk, which perhaps are abroad."

    After some urging, however, confirmed Kuppeveld reading Whittemore. All things are in his complicated than it appears from her letter. Thus, according to him one or more of the 43 healthy control subjects from the Nijmegen cohort tested positive by the WPI XMRV. At Van Kuppeveld this had raised questions about the reliability of the WPI methodology. In addition, the virologist to know when WPI multiple blood samples were requested but never received more than one XMRV-positive blood sample.

    Seven blood samples

    Looking for answers, we approached yesterday, Dr Judy Mikovits, research director of the WPI and director of the XMRV research. They gave us a telephone interview the necessary answers. "Frank Kuppeveld seven samples sent us," said Mikovits. "They were numbered 1 to 7. It was cDNA, which he had made of RNA. "

    The WPI tested the seven samples with an advanced PCR technique in a closed system, so no contamination could occur. Three samples were positive. After which numbers reported in Nijmegen were tested positive, the message came back that they were two patients and a healthy control person. Mikovits for this outcome was as expected. "We were never informed about the number of control subjects in this group of seven. But two positives seven is about what I expected. I did not advance out of a 100% score, especially with PCR. "

    That a control person was found positive by the WPI was also not a surprise for Mikovits. "It all depends on where you get the blood." In the BMJ, the Nijmegen researchers indicated that the checks came from the vicinity of patients. "The positive control person is no surprise as the family or a caregiver concerned. Control Persons coming along with the patient to donate blood, we call touch controls. Some of these people may be infected. "

    It is anyway true that XMRV is also found in healthy individuals. So did the WPI in their own research in Science 218 healthy controls eight people with a XMRV positive test (3.7%) (4).

    No replication

    Mikovits Judy and her colleagues are extremely angry about the fact that the Nijmegen research in the BMJ publication has reported on cooperation with the WPI. "We have at least one month for every three or four days had contact," she says. "There was material up and down, cooperation agreements, signatures." Sat for her sense of her Kuppeveld behind the feathers. "He was very demanding and always asked whether I had received all things, had tested or reviewed."

    Approximately one week before the Nijmegen BMJ study published online, fell silent communication. "That was after I had sent our positive results. I saw this as good news: "You have something that you can start work. From Kuppeveld but did not find good news because they had found nothing. His message was: there is among you, there has been contamination. While I had received the material from him. I was really speechless. That was the end of contact. A week later, their publication. "

    Mikovits find it incomprehensible that the Nijmegen researchers in any way have used the materials they received from the WPI. But claimed a "replication study" to have done. "We send antibody positive serum and positive DNA. Kuppeveld of samples had been able to grow up like we did in our study Science. They had their plasma to test for antibodies and reagents we can use to search for proteins and things like that. But they have not done anything and also reported on the possibilities to do it. We would have liked Kuppeveld Of all data had been reported. If there is a disagreement or misinterpretation, can you look at it together. They had the code samples and disrupt our work together. But you can not just leave to avoid the outside world as if nothing happened. "

    From hindsight Kuppeveld and his colleagues are only interested in the PCR technique, while Mikovits assumed that the entire Nijmegen Science Research would be repeated. "I had no idea that he spent the rest of the investigation was not wanted. That surprised me enormously. "

    Keep silent

    Long was one from the WPI remained silent. Until early this week. Annette Whittemore Mikovits suspect was triggered by statements made on television recently Myra McClure, in which the significance of the British retroviroloog XMRV in ME / CFS belittled. Whittemore decided in this arena to act on her letter. "We took a long time that the best way to deal with this is to continue our investigation and the lies just to forget. What else can you do? We had seven samples did our work and reported to them honestly what we had found. "

    Van Kuppeveld more positive blood samples requested, Mikovits confirm. "I'd like to send him more. But what would he have done it? Finding out that they were negative, and then bad things to say? " Mikovits is determined to continue to walk XMRV route sounds and motivated than ever. "We have isolated a virus from one hundred patients and show how their immune system responds. You know, there is no immune response to a contaminant. The patients were clearly infected with a virus. "

    Mikovits is not the only one who takes very seriously XMRV: earlier this month it was announced that in Canada, people with CFS suffered no longer allowed to donate blood. Canada is the first country in the world that this precaution has been taken.

    1. Whittemore A. Dear Dr. McClure. April 12, 2010 (www.wpinstitute.org)
    2. Erlwein 0, S Kaye, A. [..], Clear Failure to detect the novel retrovirus XMRV in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. PLoS ONE 2010, 1: e8519
    3. From Kuppeveld FJ, de Jong AS, van der Meer JWM [..],. Prevalence or xenotropic murine Leukaemia virus-related virus in patient with chronic fatigue syndrome in the Netherlands: retrospective analysis of samples from an Established cohort. BMJ 2010; 340: c1018
    4. VC Lombardi, Ruscetti FW, [..], Mikovits JA. Detection of an infectious retrovirus, XMRV in blood cells or patient with chronic fatigue syndrome. Science 2009, 326 (5952) :585-9

    De Graaf T. XMRV: the missing link in ME / CFS? Ortho 1, 2010: 6
    De Graaf T. XMRV pray ME / CFS: an update. Ortho 2, 2010: 86
    ________________________________________
    Ortho - Orthomolecular Magazine - www.ortho.nl
    Bimonthly magazine on nutrition and supplements
    Chief Editor: Dr. Gert E. Schuitemaker
  11. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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    So, v Kuppeveld tried to tell Dr M that she'd contaminated his samples.

  12. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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    Is this your article ?
  13. pollycbr125

    pollycbr125 Senior Member

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    the plot thickens . lets see what mcClure and co have to say now
  14. VillageLife

    VillageLife Senior Member

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    WPI tested 7 Dutch samples - 3 Positive......

    The English isn't perfect. It's been translated.

    Latest news: it "Nijmegen" XMRV-positive blood

    Gendringen - April 16, 2010. Researchers at UMC St. Radboud were published in February in the blood of Dutch patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) no XMRV virus have been found. But she concealed that American investigators in blood samples from the same patients, this retrovirus have found.
    This appears from a letter Annette Whittemore, chief of the Whittemore-Peterson Institute (WPI) in Reno, on Monday, April 12 sent to Dr. Myra McClure. (1) The latter is retro virology professor at Imperial College London and one of the authors of the first negative 'replication studies' to XMRV infection in ME / CFS. (2) In its letter inviting McClure from Whittemore to cooperate with the WPI in the investigation of XMRV. They also fold out of the school over the other two negative replication studies published to date, including those of the UMC St. Radboud.

    Email Correspondence

    The Nijmegen experimental virologist Dr. Frank Kuppeveld internist and Prof. Jos van der Meer took earlier this year in frozen blood from 1991-1992 of 32 Dutch CFS no trace of XMRV. In the blood of 43 healthy control subjects, the retrovirus is not detected. They published their findings online in late February the British Medical Journal. (3)
    In her letter indicates that the WPI Whittemore, however, at the request of Van Kuppeveld, some blood samples from the Dutch cohort study has tested before the Nijmegen study was completed. WPI was the traces of this XMRV. Whittemore says about emailcorres-to have correspondence that shows that Van Kuppeveld was aware of the WPI research results before they have negative studies published. In his scientific publication, however, no mention of cooperation with the WPI. (3) Annette Whittemore asked for a copy of the email traffic in Nijmegen, but this request has not (yet) accepted.

    Whittemore wrote in her letter that further Kuppeveld From the WPI has called for a positive blood sample and reagents, in order to determine whether its testing procedures were able to find XMRV in positive blood. WPI was the response to this question. Whittemore's letter asks why Kuppeveld From his research has not made use of these materials.

    Confirmation

    Annette Whittemore's letter raises many questions about the Nijmegen XMRV research. The most pressing question is whether the reading of Kuppeveld Whittemore can confirm? And if so, how many blood samples from the Nijmegen cohort study were sent to Reno, and that number by the WPI tested positive? And last but not least, why the Nijmegen researchers did not mention this in all languages in and around their research published in the British Medical Journal?

    Last Wednesday announced the editors of Ortho by phone at Van Kuppeveld virologist, after his first letter from Annette Whittemore to have emailed. During the telephone conversation which followed, gave the virologist to this letter not previously have had to face. From Kuppeveld said in the short term response: "I will first have bestu the letter - and reduce it at least with my colleagues to talk, which perhaps are abroad."

    After some urging, however, confirmed Kuppeveld reading Whittemore. All things are in his complicated than it appears from her letter. Thus, according to him one or more of the 43 healthy control subjects from the Nijmegen cohort tested positive by the WPI XMRV. At Van Kuppeveld this had raised questions about the reliability of the WPI methodology. In addition, the virologist to know when WPI multiple blood samples were requested but never received more than one XMRV-positive blood sample.

    Seven bloedmonstes

    Looking for answers, we approached yesterday, Dr Judy Mikovits, research director of the WPI and director of the XMRV research. They gave us a telephone interview the necessary answers. "Frank Kuppeveld seven samples sent us," said Mikovits. "They were numbered 1 to 7. It was cDNA, which he had made of RNA. "
    The WPI tested the seven samples with an advanced PCR technique in a closed system, so no contamination could occur. Three samples were positive. After each Nijmegen was reported that numbers were tested positive, the message came back that they were two patients and a healthy control person. Mikovits for this outcome was as expected. "We were never informed about the number of control subjects in this group of seven. But two positives seven is about what I expected. I did not advance out of a 100% score, especially with PCR. "

    That a control person was found positive by the WPI was also not a surprise for Mikovits. "It all depends on where you get the blood." In the BMJ, the Nijmegen researchers indicated that the checks came from the vicinity of patients. "The positive control person is no surprise as the family or a caregiver concerned. Control Persons coming along with the patient to donate blood, we call touch controls. Some of these people may be infected. "

    It is anyway true that XMRV is also found in healthy individuals. So did the WPI in their own research in Science 218 healthy controls eight people with a positive test XMRV (3.7%) (4).

    No replication

    Mikovits Judy and her colleagues are extremely angry about the fact that the Nijmegen research group in the BMJ publication has reported on cooperation with the WPI. "We need at least one month for every three or four days had contact," she says. "There was material up and down, cooperation agreements, signatures." For her sense of Kuppeveld Sat behind her feathers. "He was very demanding and always asked whether I had received all things, had tested or reviewed."

    Approximately one week before the Nijmegen BMJ study published online, fell silent communica-tion. "That was after I had sent our positive results. I saw this as good news: "You have something that you can start work. From Kuppeveld but did not find good news because they had found nothing. His message was: there is among you, there has been contamination. While I had received the material from him. I was really speechless. That was the end of contact. A week later, their publication. "

    Mikovits find it incomprehensible that the Nijmegen researchers in any way have used the materials they received from the WPI. But claimed a "replication study" to have done. "We send antibody positive serum and positive DNA. Kuppeveld of samples had been able to grow up like we did in our study Science. They had their plasma to test for antibodies and reagents we can use to search for proteins and things like that. But they have not done anything and also reported on the possibilities to do it. We would have liked Van Kuppeveld all data had been reported. If there is a disagreement or misinterpretation, can you look at it together. They had the code samples and disrupt our work together. But you can not just leave to avoid the outside world as if nothing happened. "

    From hindsight Kuppeveld and his colleagues are only interested in the PCR technique, while Mikovits assumed that the entire Nijmegen Science Research would be repeated. "I had no idea that he spent the rest of the investigation was not wanted. That surprised me enormously. "

    Keep silent

    Long was one from the WPI remained silent. Until early this week. Annette Whittemore Mikovits suspect was triggered by statements made on television recently Myra McClure, in which the significance of the British retroviroloog XMRV in ME / CFS belittled. Whittemore decided in this arena to act on her letter. "We took a long time that the best way to deal with this is to continue our investigation and the lies just to forget. What else can you do? We had seven samples did our work and reported to them honestly what we had found. "
    Van Kuppeveld more positive blood samples requested, Mikovits confirm. "I'd like to send him more. But what would he have done it? Finding out that they were negative, and then bad things about it? "Mikovits is determined to continue to walk XMRV route and sounds motivated than ever. "We have isolated a virus from one hundred patients and show how their immune system responds. You know, there is no immune response to a contaminant. The patients were clearly infected with a virus. "

    Mikovits is not the only one who takes very seriously XMRV: earlier this month it was announced that in Canada, people with CFS suffered no longer allowed to donate blood. Canada is the first country in the world that this precaution has been taken.
  15. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    This is absolutely a scandal. I think that at the end of this proccess, all steps to make sure that those researchers from nijmegen would get their punishment must be taken. I think what I was arfraid from the moment of the WPI's finding is turning out to be the truth: A lot of researchers and scientists has an interest in keeping us sick - whether it's because they are arfraid that people would understand that their claims all over the years were wrong, whether they don't want to cure ME/CFS patients because then those patients would not come to their clinic and pay them, and whether because of other reasons. I just hope that there are enough good scientists out there to reveal the truth.
  16. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Would it not be wise to check with dr Mikovits what exactly she told the interviever?
  17. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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    I'm beginning to wonder now if he can be on the level, given that his alleged comment about Dr Judy contaminating his samples.

    The Dutch study appears to have so many parallels with the Imperial study: reputable retrovirologists (v Kuppeveld/McClure) with no previous knowledge of ME are co-opted by psychiatrists who don't want to find XMRV in ME (van der Meer/Wessely) and samples come from cohorts at known schools of the psychosocial model (Nijmegen/Kings).

    If the parallels continue, then v Kuppeveld will soon be on Australian TV dissing the WPI and refusing to co-operate with the US researchers. I truly hope I'm wrong.
  18. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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  19. VillageLife

    VillageLife Senior Member

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    The WPI, just released this information on there facebook page and I thought as its a new article that has lots of new information, it should have its own thread.
  20. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Van der Meer is not a psychiatrist. He is an internal medecine doctor. As for as I know even Bleijenberg is not a psychiatrists but a clinacal psychologist

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