Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by melihtas, Aug 11, 2014.
'Worm pill' could ease autoimmune disease symptoms
Wikipedia: Helminthic therapy
What do you think of this, @Jonathan Edwards?
The theory doesn't work for me. I grew up on a ranch and farm and we always said "You have to eat your peck of dirt before you die." I've wrestled calves for branding, rolled around in the cow patties and breathed the dust kicked up by horses and cattle. I've been tossed off a horse and stepped on by cattle.
I had to clean out the chicken house each spring, also breathing and touching a lot of "unhealthy" dust.
And as kids, we all had worms and were given pills to get rid of them. I would be surprised if most kids didn't have worms of some kind when they were small.
We grew almost all our own food and slaughtered our own meat animals. There is nothing in my childhood lifestyle that can account for ME at age 34.
If anything is affecting our immune systems in this way, it's more likely all the vaccinations that kids get at such a young age nowadays, before they can develop a normal immune system.
I tend to agree with Iquitos. To be honest the news story does not tell us much but it looks a bit half baked to me. When Professor Norton says experts around the world have yet to fully understand the causes of autoimmune diseases presumably he is speaking for himself. I think I know enough to suspect that nothing that helps RA is likely to help psoriasis. I am not sure on what grounds half the diseases mentioned are called autoimmune. OK I have my own particular views but this looks like that sort of fashionable simplistic account that people use to persuade each other to give themselves research grants as they revolve through the committees. 'Damping the immune system' is the sort of language one might have used in the 1970s but I think we need something a bit more honed to a point these days.
These peptides might still work brilliantly for one disease - whichever one they are relevant to.
Another one bites the dust...
Well, let's see. I am just a bit underwhelmed by the way it is reported. That one disease might after all be ME5 (might).
If that is your upbringing maybe looking into bacterial infections like Lyme and Co Infections would be helpful. I was similarly spent an abnormal amount of my time outdoors before getting sick.
Plus post-Q fever.
I didn't have a single vaccination until I was well into my 20's, so the too many childhood vaccines theory doesn't work for me at all.
There are several threads on this subject:
Your thoughts on Hookworm therapy?
Starting helminthic therapy for CFS, log
New gut ecosystem model?
autoimmune treatment vs parasite issues
Hookworms: Our Friends?
Been there, done that, even though I've never had the symptoms of Lyme (and never had the symptoms of Q fever.)
I left that lifestyle behind at age 17 and didn't get ME until I was 34. Don't think there would be such a delay from exposure to expression of disease. I was super healthy until I got ME at age 34.
What I had at 34 was obviously a virus -- the "killer flu" that so many of us had at that time. The crowded waiting room of the hospital I went to was full of people like me, sitting on the floor because there weren't enough chairs, holding plastic bags for the interminable vomiting -- like my body was trying to turn itself inside out. I didn't have a fever but areas around my lymph nodes got so hot the skin later flaked off as if I'd had a sunburn in those areas and left patches of darkened skin, like huge, dark freckles, which I didn't have anywhere else.
What's an "abnormal" amount of time outdoors?
Oh sorry typo auto correct, meant to write an high amount of time out doors. So you never had any kind of symptoms until then? And now you are still feeling ill from it? Is there anyone else that was there during that time who is still ill?
@Martial No, I had no symptoms of ME before the summer of 1982. Yes, I still have that illness and it is progressing in some ways. I recovered to about 50% of normal function at that time and have lost function over time to where I function at around 25% of normal. Some of that could be that I am now 66, but my parents are still living independenly at ages 89 & 90. They are in many ways healthier than I am, so I doubt that my loss of function is due to age.
I don't know whether anyone else at the hospital (Kaiser) when I was is still ill. I didn't know those patients then and have no way of knowing. I do know that no one in my office (San Jose CA) ever got sick like I did and no one else in my family or social circles, either.
When you followed up with doctors did they suggest that the same viral illness could be causing long term issues/chronic infection, or that the M.E. was triggered from acute illness? There is also the possibility your immune system was holding other stuff at bay until that time you got really sick, then all hell broke loose so to speak. What kind of treatments have you been doing so far? Have anti virals of any kind been of any assistance?
This idea often provokes me to post because it always strikes me that the 'hygiene hypothesis' seems to ignore an equally likely explanation for the rising levels of allergies and immune/autoimmune diseases. If the idea is that broad correlations have been observed between increased cleanliness and these health problems, is it not the case that this increased cleanliness goes hand in hand with the increasing use of more and more different kinds of synthetic cleaning chemicals? And if I'm not missing the point there, then surely it's equally plausible to think that those new chemicals might themselves be the cause?
Yes, I know that mice raised in ultra-clean environments go on to develop problems. But again, what was used to clean those environments and keep them clean? And is it not also known that some of these same chemicals cause broadly similar problems in large doses, which is why the levels of them are controlled?
So it really rather bugs me that scientists always seem to talk about the 'hygiene hypothesis' but I never hear much from the mainstream about the 'chemical cleaning products toxicity hypothesis'. Perhaps @Jonathan Edwards can disabuse me of this idea and explain why there's a good reason to consider one hypothesis and ignore the other...I've never heard a good explanation but maybe there is one...
I have heard some other groups discuss theories on chemical causing diseases quite a bit actually, just not from the medical field or doctors themselves. Certain countries in Europe even banned the use of certain anti bacterial hand soaps because of the harsh ingredients it had contained. This is definitely an interesting point, however does this correlate with things used on our body like hand soaps, body washes, deodorants, etc or also the enviroment around us like glass and table cleaners, solvents, etc.
I did find a few studies that also looked at deodorant as a possible trigger for Alzheimer's due to high metal content like aluminum.
@Martial This was the 1980s so doctors, upon not finding anything in their paper printouts of standard lab tests did what doctors did then: told me it was all in my head, or words to that effect, and prescribed antidepressants and talk therapy. I did both because I had no alternative then and wasn't connected to other patients. Neither "therapy" did me any good. The only good thing that eventually came from this was that I met a psychiatrist who also had ME. He was experiencing the same treatment: it's all in your head. So we had some good conversations about everything under the sun until he became so disabled he had to quit working.
Yes, there is always the possibility my "immune system was holding other stuff at bay". It would be impossible to prove that one way or another, now, and probably then. I had had mono (EBV) in college 15 years earlier. After getting ME, I did get tested for EBV (the culprit of the era) and was found to have titers "600 times normal." The doc said it probably meant something but he didn't know what and that there was "no treatment" anyway. Later my research showed me that there was a treatment for EBV: famvir or acyclovir. I will never know whether treatment then would have stopped or slowed down the progress, or even cured me.
After finding out about another ME sufferer (whose symptoms and history closely paralleled mine) had tried famvir and found it helpful, I attempted to do a trial of my own. I couldn't get famvir but acyclovir was available. I had gotten to the point I couldn't walk without holding on to the walls, furniture or my caregiver (ataxia). I started acyclovir and had an extreme reaction to it. Fever of 104 and the worst headache of my life. We backed off the dosage, treated the headache with ice and the other ailments with diclofenac with codeine.
Then we slowly increased dosage until after three months I was taking 800mg 4x/day. By six months I was able to again walk unaided and exprienced a lot of other improvements, especially in cognition. I was also taking 100mg doxycycline as prophylaxis against malaria (living in Central America by then; couldn't afford to live in the US on the meager SSDI check I was awarded in 1994). I could buy acyclovir over the counter there and I had a doctor there to monitor my liver, etc. (At $15 for a housecall and $15 for the phlebotomist to come to my house, take blood and urine, and provide the lab results to my doc.)
Since being back in the US I have trialled stopping both the doxy and the acyclovir and have had my symptoms worsen. And since my lab tests never showed any damage to liver or kidneys, I now use them both as my alternate immune system.
They never helped with PEM or lack of stamina. The doxy seems to help some with back pain.
The only thing that has helped with insomnia and joint pain is medical cannabis. I had got to the point I couldn't spread my legs without excruciating pain in my hip/groin joints. Since starting medical cannabis (March 2014) one side has returned to normal functioning and the other side is much, much better, due I feel, to the cannabis. I grow my own medical varieties (low THC, high CBD and other cannabidiols) and make herbal tinctures of them. I have not slept this well in 30 years and the lessening of the joint pain seems like a miracle to me.
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