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Wireless Devices Cause Symptoms.

Discussion in 'Hypersensitivity and Intolerance' started by Wifi123, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Hip,

    This is latest that I have received on Wi Fi in trains. I avoid our trains like anything because of it.

    http://www.telecompaper.com/news/italian-consumer-group-warns-of-wi-fi-health-risks-on-trains

    Italian consumer group warns of Wi-Fi health risks on trains
    Wednesday 10 October 2012 | 10:43 CET | News
    "A survey conducted by Italian consumers association Condacons, conducted on Frecciarossa trains from Trenitalia and high-speed NTV trains, claims that Wi-Fi connections on trains represent a threat to the health of passengers. Exposure to magnetic and electromagnetic waves on Italian trains equipped with the internet system 'exceeds the limits set by law'. Electromagnetic waves detected on Frecciarossa exceeded the limit by 588 percent and on the Italo trains the situation is even worse, with an excess of 6,800 percent. Condacons has subsequently presented a complaint to prosecutors in Milan, Turin, Bologna, Florence and Rome."
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Tinnitus and fatigue do not equate to having ME. Try post-exertional neuroimmune exhaustion and orthostatic intolerance for starters.
    SOC likes this.
  3. wdb

    wdb Admin

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    I would love to believe you, it would be fantastic if ME/CFS could be significantly improved by turning off wireless devices but I have to go with the best evidence presently available which very much suggests otherwise.

    Take this as an example of levels of evidence

    level-of-evidence-figure.jpg

    On the one hand there are systematic reviews, the highest level of evidence there is, e.g.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18359015
    This review showed that the large majority of individuals who claims to be able to detect low level RF-EMF are not able to do so under double-blind conditions. If such individuals exist, they represent a small minority and have not been identified yet.

    On the other hand an unknown person on the internet providing unsupported personal opinion and anecdote, not really even reaching the lowest level.

    I wish you were right but the evidence is just not there.
    svetoslav80, SOC and Valentijn like this.
  4. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Every summer I go away for 1 to 2 weeks to a cottage situated on a lake where there are 5 other cottages. There are no phones, there is no cell reception (the nearest cell tower is 10 miles away), there is no tv etc. I can categorically state that my symptoms do not improve one iota. One summer my symptoms got alot worse. I crashed to the point where I couldn't stand for a few days. I suppose I could claim the lack of all these things in my life made me worse, but I won't.

    I have sensitivities to quite a few things in the environment but having wifi etc doesn't seem to be one of those things.

    It would be nice if it were true that EMF avoidance could cure ME/CFS.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  5. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    No, Wifi123, no cordless phone, no TV, no computer at all at home for a very long time. I was living a "stone-age" version of city life during the first decade of my illness. Of course, I can't be sure that my neighbours didn't run a more modern life, but most of them were in their late seventies and without TV...
  6. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    Like other forum members I too would love that EMF avoidance would bring to a cure... Efforts to maintain my level of function has required from me to be very careful about all my environnement conditions (EMF, chemicals, etc...), but was not a cure. On the other hand, in addition to avoiding EMF exposure, I noticed some improvement when practising earthing on a regular basis. It enabled me to walk slowly up to 30 mn (at a time I required the wheelchair for each move out of the house), but havn't succeeded to extend the result to real improvement in health. I still can't go shopping, nor stand up in line, nor walk 5 minutes on the pavement...
  7. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi VB,

    When I was diagnosed ME in 1984 and CFS 1994 tinnitus did equate, it doesn't mean that you had to have tinnitus to be ME but tinnitus is one things that is the side effects of drugs that people may take for ME/CFS. I am not trying to covert you, but to make those ME/CFS sufferers who have been running around in circles, on the merry-go-round, taking this and that and anything that is suggested, blaming a virus, blaming this and that, when it's all around us, and is now worse since the wireless technology has flourished for the good of the shareholders in those companies. When you read the operating manuals of these electronic equipments/devices you are warned of the dangers, but no one takes any notice, and by putting you cell phone 58mm from you head is a lot of rubbish. RFR is RFR and it will cause tinnitus and brain tumours.
  8. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi WBD,

    That chart you posted is very interesting, and most of it is all theories, because the lack of evidence, isn't because of the absence of evidence, but the evidence is absent, because the evidence is denied. Turning OFF your wireless these days is like taking three head capsules before going to bed, because you next-door neighbour or your new smart electrical appliances that you have purchased is also going to be one of the offendes, and sadly not some virus or any other environmental factor. I am trying to warn others that they have to protect themself, and to be aware that RFR is much of the causation factor of such suffering, which has been swept under the carpet by increasing the safety regulations to such an extremity that it makes any EMR and EMF emitting equipment/device SAFE!
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    It doesn't anymore. Most people here have CCC/ICC ME/CFS or ME. Or at least CDC's definition of CFS.

    You're in the wrong place, and talking to the wrong people. I appreciate your good intentions, but you're not helping.
  10. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Sorry Hip,



    If you going into any Wi Fi area it transmits the same as a DECT phone, 24/7.



    Also, you computer/notebook/laptop is transmitting all the time while turned ON, when at rest the wireless card will be still transmitting, normally every 58 seconds. Buy yourself and Electrosmog metre, ED65 and a Trifield metre and you will be gob-smacked.



    This is only one of the thousands of sites in regards to the dangers of Wi Fi just by punching into Google search engine “dangers of Wi Fi” or “dangers of Wi Fi radiation”, or “dangers of Wi Fi hotspots”:



    http://www.safespaceprotection.com/electrostress-from-wireless-routers.aspx



    http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2007/05/21/wi-fi-radiation-is-it-dangerous-to-your-child/



    These are the reasons why Wi Fi has been removed out of many libraries throughout the world and in schools.



    For the past forty years I have spoken the truth about such and people go out of their way to prove a person wrong, but those people are the ones who are living a lie on misinformation about the dangers and health risks involved with so-called “harmless” Wi Fi. Wi Fi and DECT are all the same, including Wi Max.



    When you get to the extremity of my suffering, you will realise that it’s all about “SIGNAL OUTPUT” and “SIGNAL INPUT”. And if you believe that radiation coming out of your next-door neighbour is so weak that it can’t hurt you then only you will in time see the truth. How do you think these electronic equipment/devices work? Yep, by the strength of a signal received (signal input) at the receiver (receiving tower/human body), which is then amplified in the circuity (amplification circuit/central nervous system) and is then sent out as an “output signal” (to the next receive tower/peripheral nervous system of a human body), and so on and so.



    If you think you are safe from next-doors Wi Fi, then you need to go to those sites and have a good read, which many of such sites are written by experts and not some dumb/lamb person down the road. Our top brain surgeon has been warning our country of the increase of brain tumours just from cell phones, and the DECT and Wi Fi are worse.



    Now if this so-called weak signal as you refer to it as being can be amplified by another piece of electronic equipment, then why can’t the central nervous system of your body do exactly the same things?



    It’s obvious you don’t understand “dBm” or “mW/m2” or “volts/metre” or “magnetic fields of milli gauss” or “electrical fields of VOLTS/METRE”. Because the weakest signal will effect the CNS of a human body, which in turns effects the peripheral nervous system.



    So you theory is that if there is three walls between you and that, then how come you are able to communicate after the signal goes through three hundred walls before it gets to the cell/Wi Fi receive tower?





    Your facts about a weak signal would never stand up in court when it comes to a human body’s electrical circuits that are more sensitive than a wireless receiver 10kms away.



    If you were standing 12 metres from your neighbour’s Wi Fi I am sure the readings would be greater than what you would have on a metre from a cell phone at your ear. Get a metre, then start quoting figures, and you need to see the human body as a more sensitive electronic receiver than a Wi Fi receiver 1km away, which is the normal radius away from any Wi Fi transmitter.



    Thanks for you interest Hip, you do look at things logically, but sadly you need to go to Google and read the other side of the story of health risks. As I said it had taken me forty years and many years on the normal ME/CFS merry-go-round before I found the truth of RFR and EMR and EMF. Now, why I say this because all my military mates have died from every conceivable form of cancer, but before the cancer really got a hold of them they were also diagnosed as ME, CFS, FMS, and MS, including myself, because I am till alive to tell the story, and I am speaking from real personal experiences, and know that most ME/CFS sufferers are suffering from RFR of EMR and EMF.



    Only times will tell, just the same as asbestos and passive cigarette smoking in regards to cancer. I was cancerous to, and all the medical fraternity did for me is to see me a nuisance with all my suffering and all their medical tests said that I was all okay and there was nothing wrong with me, but suffering from a neurological disorder that was normal for a ME/CFS sufferer.



    Now I am not speaking from an armchair, and not an armchair expert, but from PERSONAL experience, and I am not here to convert you, but to warn the sufferers of the health risks of RFR of EMR and EMF that has been the culprit for such sufferers for DECADES, and not some unknown virus or mental problem.
  11. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    His/her advice may be helpful to some at this site... I dont think what anyone is going to say is going to be helpful for everyone at this site as after all, everyone here has so many different issues going on.
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I'd agree, if he wasn't subscribing to a very weird definition of ME/CFS. In his posts, he's equating the Wifi issues with the entirety of ME/CFS, and that isn't helpful at all. It's very annoying, actually, and makes it impossible for me to take anything he says seriously.
  13. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    nods understanding where you are coming from Valentijin.. certainly not a case of one thing fits all and it is annoying when someone thinks that.
  14. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Sorry Tania, I have researched my ME/CFS/FMS, for forty years, and if you believe that I am not helpful to you, but I have been helpful to other people around me, maybe not on this forum, but I am only trying to make those sufferers who are chasing their tail trying to find a cure by all the snake-oil treatment for ME/CFS/FMS and found nothing.

    Not one medical person can explain to me the cause of my debilitating disorders. I stopped chasing my tail when I discovered wireless technology was causing my symptoms, and not some viral disease, genetics, race, age, gender, and diet, when I discovered the increase of many undiagnosable illnesses since the introduction of cell phones and towers, DECT phones and Wi Fi communications.

    I don't have any intentions to cause any disruption, anxiety or fear to anyone, but call a spade a spade, and tell the truth. Many sufferers find their disorder debilitating and when people keep on telling others, only by word of mouth that wireless technology is harmless is living a lie on misinformation.

    We need to realise that the wireless technology of today is dangerous and a health risk and is one of the causation factors of many undiagnosable disorder, because RFR effects the central nervous system, exactly what a ME/CFS/FMS sufferer suffers from. I am speaking from personal experience not an ALARMIST, I am trying to get people to be aware, beware, and don’t be unaware of the dangers of wireless technology today.

    The French government became aware of the symptoms that their staff in their libraries were suffering exactly the same symptoms as ME/CFS/FMS and found it was the Wi Fi used in the libraries, and also in schools, and they removed it and went back to using cable.

    I can understand the different issues of individuals who suffer from ME/CFS/FMS because I have been one for the past forty years, and I am no longer a young person and I don’t put my faith in half-baked statements coming from doctors, because I check them out as I have had many life-threatening experiences from incompetence and neglect.

    If I am offending you, then all I can say is to just check it out, and understand that the wireless technology of today isn't harmless and I am only trying to warn others of what I have discovered from in depth RESEARCH, and not misinformation by word of mouth.

    I am very sorry if I have caused you any anxiety, but truth is the real matter of my expression and not misbeliefs. Sorry Tania, but I do mean good.

    I have seen far too many of my friends die from cancer and their symptoms were the same as ME/CFS, and sadly wireless was the offender.

    I am only trying to warn sufferers to be aware, beware, and don't be unaware of the real health issues because wireless technology is a health risk.

    Over the years I have found the only people who are angry with me for speaking the truth are those people who are living a lie, and so I keep speaking the truth. I am sorry Tania if you can't see any truth in my concerns, so please forgive me.



  15. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Wifi123 said:

    I don't think any body is 'angry' with you (annoyed does not mean angry). The problem here is that one person's truth is not necessarily the next person's truth. Nobody knows the cause of ME/CFS but we do have some pretty good clues. So really there aren't any truths. I wonder why it is that with all the countries that use microwaves, cell phones, wifi and so on don't have billions of people with ME/CFS. If EMF's cause illness, why am I the only one in my house so sick when we have all been exposed equally and some even more. They are healthy as healthy can be. It must be something else. Just because I personally don't believe that EMF's cause ME/CFS, it doesn't mean I am living a lie. :eek:
  16. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Kina,

    Yes I've been in the same position, and I found that was so as well, but after ten weeks I found I began to improve slightly, and after two years I was healed. But, when I returned to the old environment my suffering returned with a vengence.

    If a sufferers body has been bombarded for many years over prolonged and long-termed period to years, your body can't act like an ON/OFF switch of a power switch, as it take a long time for your body to recover.

    I first became aware of this in the mid-1980s, and we went away for a four-week holiday in a similar area that you spoke of. By the third week I began to get a real zest of life again, and couldn't work out what was going on, and by the fourth week, I was feeling really great, but as soon as I arrived home, all hell broke lose. It was devastating, and I believed it was the high voltage tension lines and transformer tht was near our home.

    I then wandered around for another decade an a half suffering, sometimes reasonable, then other days debilitating. In late 1990s we moved to a country environment for 2 1/2 years I was healed, and I felt great, but as soon as I returned back home (2000) to our old area, and now cell phones and towers were a new field, my whole world fell around me once again.

    Now my life is a nightmare, as the Wi Fi and cordless wireless technology becomes worse and worse. There are many well-qualified medical professors who speak out of the dangers of such technology and the health risks, but because the safety regulations have been extended to extreme safety levels, it then makes anything safe and harmless; and falls on “deaf ears”.

    All I can ask: "How safe is safe?"

    I had the same problems when I lived near high voltage power transmission lines and transformers near my home. Not only RFR is a problem, but also the magnetic and electrical fields coming out of the cottage light and power cable that emit ELF, which is no different to RFR. Most cottages have a power board outside of the bedroom, and most mattresses have metal innersprings, which act as an antenna and radiates your body while sleeping, when it should be healing.

    No, I never said that avoiding RFR will cure ME/CFS/FMS, but such sufferers need to be aware of what wireless technology can do, as is a real causation factor that is causing this debilitating disorder---I have, and have proven such that I have been living a lie, and it's going to get worse.

    Has smart metres and appliances arrived in our area?

    Smart metres and Wi Fi in schools are causing much devastation to the public in the home, work place, and public place, and I speak from personal experience, and not some ad-hoc ideas formed from misinformation. I have researched a lot on autism, cerebral palsy, Alzheimer Diseas, MS, Lyme’s Disease, and the increase of ADD and AHD in children, including obesity in children.

    Wireless technology has only replaced asbestos and passive cigarette smoking.

    Sadly, there is no way of avoiding the flood of wireless technology, and all I am trying to do is make people aware of the lies that wireless technology is harmless and safe, because it’s a lie.

    The World Health Organisation has classed RFR as a “2B” category of cancer, and the have also classified ME/CFS as a central nervous system disorder, and not neurological as previously assumed.

    I just pray that the people will become more aware of the dangers.
  17. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Kina,

    When I used “angry” I was talking about other people, such as local and state governments, and electronic companies, and I wasn’t inferring to anyone on this forum.

    Truth is only such when our eyes are opened, because we all know that the truth will set you free.

    There are billions of people who are aware of the dangers of wireless technology throughout the world.

    In Sweden EHS is classed a disability pension, and many laws have been changed in European countries in regards to the dangers of wireless technology, it’s just you haven’t been aware of it, and possibly ignored what you had heard.

    Did you know that the Indian government have placed restrictions on the Telcom companies in India, because they now know that they are effecting the environment, and affecting their people?

    Did you know that the environment is being damaged by the wireless technology, such as the disappearance of birds life, the bees, and is having an affect on plant growth.

    Why was Wi Fi banned from use in French Libraries and many schools around the world?

    I have done a number of experiments with plant life. I have sweet peas growing in my garden and three of the plants growing nearest to the power board are spindly an sick, and all the leaves are scorched from the RFR coming out of the board.

    I can see that these things you are not aware of because they didn’t interest you. If you were to go into the Google search engine and type in Dangers of Wi Fi and DECT phones, you will find much information; and like most information on the Internet you have to sort the boys out from the girls.

    There is so much out there and sadly most people just walk in their narrow life-style trail and don’t see or view the bigger picture of the outer world of greed and misinformation that is part and parcel of media brainwashing, keep the public blind of the truth.

    Yes my truth won't be another person's truth, until they see the TRUTH, because the TRUTH will set you free.

    If you believe that wireless technology is safe and harmless, then I guess when you realise the truth, then you will realise that you were listening to a lie. The asbestos and cigarette companies fed lies through the media for fifty years that their killer was safe and harmless.

    In my country, dieldrin was used for twenty years after it was banned in America, why was that so? We became a dumping ground to get rid of the chemical from those countries that banned it.

    I have a faulty hip implant, which should never have been implanted, because they were banned in American four years previously. The company lied just the same as the asbestos, cigarette, and chemical companies did.

    So, here we are fighting the same battle as we did with those companies who claimed that their products were safe and harmless years ago. So what is the difference now about wireless technology?

    Regards
  18. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Sorry that you find me annoying, but why not do some research, and besides if you did some homework on ME/CFS, could you please tell what is the causation factor of this debilitating disorder? Then I will find out how much knowledge you do have in regards to such. I have been suffering ME/CFS/FMS for forty years, how long have you suffered your debilitating disorder?
  19. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    I lived in a stone age city life to, and I discovered that the magnetic and eletrical fields emanating out of the high voltagle power lines nearby and including the transformer, and what was radiating out of all my Hi Fi/Stero amlifiers and the house power/lighting cable was another factor, and that good old fashion CTR TV.
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Wifi123, I don't doubt your illness, but some of your statements are outlandish, and seem quite unreliable. In particular:

    Where did you get that statement from? Presumably there are studies that demonstrate that EHS sufferers have no sheaths left on their nerve ends?

    How do you know this? Can you provide any scientific studies that prove this, or even any studies that suggest this might be a possibility?

    There is no such logic that goes: X causes cancer, therefore X must be able to cause CFS, Lyme and MS. It is a non sequitur. Just because something causes one bad thing does not automatically means it causes all other bad things.

    That is neither here nor there. You can still tell me what level of health you had at that time, as described by the Karnofsky scale. Were you able to work? Were you housebound with fatigue? Were you bedbound with fatigue? It is very simple to state you level of disability on the Karnofsky scale .

    You also did not yet answer the question of how quick you got full remission after you switched off your DECT and WiFi.

    Isn't it also possible that you were exposed to Agent Orange during your time in Vietnam? Agent Orange was used copiously there, and a quick check I just did reveals that there are lots of illnesses associated with Agent Orange. See here:

    Veterans' Diseases Associated with Agent Orange

    It seems that many people exposed to Agent Orange develop peripheral neuropathy afterwards.

    The symptoms of peripheral neuropathy are shown here: Peripheral neuropathy - DoctorMyhill

    Might this be what you have, peripheral neuropathy? If so, two very useful supplements to take for peripheral neuropathy are benfotiamine 150 mg twice daily, and vitamin B12 5000 mcg, taken as a sublingual tablet, slowly dissolved under the tongue. These can help fix any tingling or pins and needles in the nerves.

    Don't assume that you have ME/CFS just because a doctor once diagnosed you with it 40 years ago. Many medical conditions, especially ME/CFS, are very hard to diagnose accurately, and so doctors often get it wrong, even with their best efforts. You have to keep an open mind, and consider other possibilities.


    This tingling sensation all over your body, and the "ants crawling up my legs" are a typical symptom of peripheral neuropathy. You should read more about peripheral neuropathy.




    Another interpretation of this could be that you have multiple chemical sensitivity. If you moved to a country house or accommodation that was only made from natural materials like wood, then you probably would have not been exposed to the myriad chemicals that modern building materials emit.

    Next you will be telling me that you have to thrust a wooden stake through the heart of the wireless card, or shoot the wireless card with a silver bullet, in order to stop it!

    When you switch off your WiFi option on your computer, I am pretty sure it cuts the powder to the WiFi card, so the whole WiFi circuit is dead.

    Anyway, it was you who originally said that you you got full remission from your illness once you disabled your wireless and unplugged your cordless phone.

    But now you would have me believe that the wireless card still transmits even if you turn it off. You are contradicting yourself.


    In general, much of what you write seems a little tinged with fear and anxiety, if you don't mind me saying.

    There is also a negative tinge to lots of your statements. This can be a sign of depression. I am not denying that you may have electrical sensitivities, but the way you describe the situation is almost like a science fiction horror movie: this insidious, invisible electrical evil that permeates everything, and comes out of everything.

    I think you also may be reading too many junk websites online — websites that state things without evidence or proof. I think your outlook would improve if you were a bit more skeptical about what you read, rather than just assume it all to be true without any reliable evidence.

    Also consider trying out a few antidepressants. I found these very useful when I was suffering depression. Though you have to try different types before you get one that suits. The first antidepressant I tried made me feel suicidal, so I had to stop it immediately.
    Valentijn likes this.

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