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Wireless Devices Cause Symptoms.

Discussion in 'Hypersensitivity and Intolerance' started by Wifi123, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    I found after I turned OFF my cell phone, got rid of my DECT cordless phone, and converted all my wireless computer setup back to cable, and disenabled all wireless my ME/CFS disappeared.
     
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  2. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Years ago I went through this suggestion, and I discovered that after living for so many years in an area that was radiated by high power transmission lines from the energy company, and moved to a new area of less radiation my health began to improve. But, then the wireless technology came into being and now a decade later I am worse than what I had ever been. And the reason why is because my central nervous system is being radiated by non-ionised radiation from all the wireless technology and all my ME/CFS symptosm returned, but with many extra symptoms. I then stopped using the cell phone, threw out the DECT cordless phone and went back to cable connected phone. Then I disabled all wireless computer setup (modem, router, and mouse) to cable, and all my problems ceased. Then along comes good old Wi Fi and now Wi Max, so I am now being radiated by my next door neighbours with all their Wi Fi and microwave technology. After all these years of suffering all the so-called environmental factors are a lot of rubbish and ME/CFS sufferers have been suffering from electro magnetic radiation, and electrical magnetic fields. Just check out about electro sensitivity and electro hyper sensitivity, and you will will find the symptoms are no different to ME/CFS, FMS, MS, SBS, EMS,and with the other symptoms of BMS and IBS.
     
    Wayne and merylg like this.
  3. wdb

    wdb Admin

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    Unfortunately when studied under controlled conditions the evidence for electromagnetic hypersensitivity has not been strong. http://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs296/en/index.html


     
    madietodd likes this.
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I did this too a few years ago, but unfortunately, I have not noticed a difference. Still, I stick to it so as not to add to the problems I already have.

    Sushi
     
    Hanna likes this.
  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I was exposed to less wireless than usual when I got sick.
     
  6. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    EMF avoidance didn't lead to better health for me, and when I got sick, I was living in an internet free building, and didn't use any cellphone (was using computers at work).
     
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That is a strong statement, Wifi123.

    Just how bad was your ME/CFS (what level were you on the Karnofsky scale)? Did you really get full remission when switching off these devices, and if so, how quickly did it take for this full remission to appear?


    I can actually feel a very slight but discernible increase in the inflammation I get within my head and sinuses when I am exposed to WiFi devices being used (like a laptop accessing the Internet), but only at close ranges of around a meter or less. I constantly have high inflammation, due to a viral infection I caught. This very slight increase in inflammation occurs within a few minutes of close-exposure WiFi radiation. I get a similar but weaker effect from cellular phones. But to re-iterate, this is a very weak effect, and certainly not something that overly concerns me.

    In other words, I personally don't think that WiFi and other radio waves are causing, contributing or worsening my ME/CFS symptoms to any significant degree, and I imagine this is the case for most people with ME/CFS. Though I know that in a very small minority of people, there can be significant electrosensitivity.

    Though just as a precaution, I have switched off WiFi on my computer and router, and instead like you used an ethernet cable to connect computer to router. I have also unplugged my DECT cordless phone. In most DECT cordless phones, the phone's base station broadcasts out radio waves around the house 24/7, even when the phone is not being used. So you never have a break from these DECT radio waves at all, unless you unplug the phone. Though you can buy some specialist cordless phones that only broadcast radio waves when in use, and this might be a good compromise for people that want the convenience of a cordless phone, but don't want their home to bathed in DECT radio waves continually all day and all night.

    If you want to test to see if you do have electrosensitivities, Wifi123, have you considered going to a remote area, away from WiFi/cellular radio waves, for a week or two, to see if you feel better? Preferably a remote area with the same weather as the place where you normally live, otherwise you will introduce confounding factors to your test. (In other words, don't go to Hawaii, and then say "I felt so much better". Nearly everybody does in Hawaii!).

    Another way to test to see if you have electrosensitivities is to experiment with electrically conductive material. No radio wave radiation can pass through an electrical conductor of any sort. (Try putting a playing radio in a metal biscuit box and close the lid, or entirely wrapping the radio in aluminum foil with no gaps — with the foil or box not touching the radio's antenna — and you will see that the signal disappears). Thus if you wear electrically conductive fabric that entirely covers you from head to toe, you will stop all radio wave radiation from reaching you, even if you stand in the middle of a WiFi spot. Of course, this is not a permanent solution, as you cannot go around with such material on you; but it would allow you to establish whether your symptoms were indeed due to radio wave radiation or not. The downside is that this electrically conductive fabric (which is usually silver coated) is pretty expensive. Not to mention that your friends, if they see you, will think you have gone mad and joined the tin hat brigade.


    Incidentally, these WiFi, DECT, and cellular phone radio waves are called non-ionizing radiation, not non-ionized radiation. Non ionizing radiation means that the waves do not have enough energy to ionize matter: that is to say, they do not have enough energy to break chemical bonds. This means, for example, that non-ionising radiation cannot break apart the bonds that hold your DNA together — such breaks can potentially be carcinogenic (though cells do have many DNA repair mechanisms, since DNA breaks are very common). By contrast, ultraviolet radiation from the Sun is a form of ionizing radiation, and so this means ultraviolet can break DNA bonds, hence the link between Sun exposure and skin cancer.

    Initially, many scientists initially believed that non-ionizing was safe, because it could not break chemical bonds, and so could not change chemical structures. But now it is recognized that even non-ionizing radiation can have a biological effect. The science that studies the interaction between living organisms and radio waves (and other electromagnetic radiation) is called bioelectromagnetics.
     
    justy, Sushi and snowathlete like this.
  8. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Great post Hip, very informative.
    I'd try cutting it out if my house layout allowed it but I'd need a cable across my living room and new telephone and do without wireless on other devices...right now I'm writing this on an iPod. Also I live on a modern estate so lots of houses packed together-I'm mid terrace. I bet i couldn't get away from stuff if I tried.

    I'd need to pretty convinced in order to take the necessary measures.
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I don't think WiFi is so bad, because I believe that WiFi only transmits while you are downloading/uploading stuff. So if you are just reading a web page, or just writing an email, there is no WiFi activity (apart from a few seconds of brief transmission activity when you initially loaded the webpage, or at the moment you press send to dispatch the email; otherwise, WiFi doesn't transmit). Though if you are watching a video over WiFi, there is continual WiFi activity while the video is playing, because a video is a continual stream of data.

    But most DECT cordless phone base stations transmit radio waves all the time, even when you are not on the phone.

    As for WiFi or DECT transmissions from people next door:

    Firstly, one factor on your favor is that radio wave transmissions gets weaker over distance, by an amount related the square of the distance from the radio wave source.

    To give you an example: if we take a distance of 1 meter away from a WiFi transmitter or DECT cordless phone base station as our starting reference point, then if you move a little further away from the WiFi transmitter, say to a distance of 3 meters for example, then the radio wave power reaching you will have then fallen by an amount equal to: 3 x 3 = 9. That is to say, the radio wave signal is 9 times weaker by the time it reaches you at 3 meters away, compared to what it was at just 1 meter away from the source.

    To give another example: if you now move 30 meters away from the source, then the powder will have dropped by an amount equal to: 30 x 30 = 900 times weaker. So at 30 meters, the signal reaching you has become 900 times weaker, compared to its power at just 1 meter away from the source. As you can see, the radio wave power level falls of very rapidly with distance.

    And in addition to this power drop over distance, a second thing in your favor is that WiFi or DECT radio wave powder drops by around a factor of 4 for each wall the radio waves pass through.

    So if there are say 3 walls between you and your neighbor's WiFi device, then the radio wave power loss due to these 3 walls, by the time his signal reaches you, is equal to: 4 x 4 x 4 = 64 times lower.

    And let's say this same neighbor's WiFi device is located 12 meters away from you, then in addition, the signal power also drops by virtue of this distance, by an amount equal to: 12 x 12 = 144 times.

    The total power drop in the signal, due to both walls and by virtue of distance, is obtained by multiplying both figures together, which in this example is a total of: 64 x 144 = 9216 times weaker.

    To summarize this example: the signal from a neighbor's WiFi or DECT device located 12 meters from you, and which has passed through 3 walls to get to you, is around 9000 times weaker by the time it reaches you.

    Thus the WiFi and DECT phone you have in your own home are going to expose you to far, far more radio waves than those of your neighbor (unless say your neighbor has a WiFi or DECT device located right on the other side of a single separating wall between your apartments, and you happened to place your favorite armchair very close to that spot).
     
    merylg likes this.
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Hip,

    In the States you can't get the type of cordless phones that turn off between calls. I know they are available in the UK and Europe. So I bought a corded phone on Amazon. You are tied to it, but it avoids the DECT cordless phone problem. For those in the US, Panasonic makes some "modern" phones with cords and you can just use a 25 ft. cord on the receiver.

    But you won't find them in stores--only online.

    Sushi
     
  11. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    There have been outbreaks of ME from well before WIFI. My ME started as an acute viral onset before the days of mobile phones.

    Guess, this is case of one person being helped by something and then assuming we are all the same.

    I'd be curious to know what ME/CFS means to the poster. What criteria are we talking about here?
     
    Tito likes this.
  12. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    I only first got a mobile phone about 4 years ago and I got ME 15 years ago. I didnt have anything wireless at all when I got ME.

    I are thou sensitive to my electric blanket (which Ive only had 2-3 years now before that I never had one) so cant sleep with it on.

    (my neighbours are all elderly so I dont think there would be too much in the way of wireless gagets near me).
     
  13. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Thanks again Hip, again very useful information. Given the degree of signal loss you talk about, as my wifi /phone etc work throughout the house, at a fair distance, between walls etc, and i can still see many of my neighbours WiFi signals, the strength at which they emit must be very large to overcome the signal loss.
     
  14. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Wdb,

    I've researched many such studies, and what they called controlled conditions weren't controlled at all. And many of the subjects they used weren't EHS sufferers, but people who were mild ME/CFS sufferers who were suffering from magnetic and electrical fields, and hadn't become sensitive to the extreme suffering of most EHS sufferers, as there is a big difference, in fact extreme FMS is the same as a true EHS sufferer. Those so-called studies were not conducted in a shielded room from all other RFR exposure from outside, and the equipment they were using in their studies were already radiating, therefore, the failure rate was going to be high, because it wasn't controlled, and at the same time all real EHS sufferers don't work like an ON and OFF switch. In fact they have no sheaths left on their nerve ends. In fact it's like getting a basket ball player to be a brain surgeon.

    Another reason why such so-called controlled conditions are not such, is becaue at what level of radiation are they using when the safety regulations was destroyed a decade ago by removing the 100 milli gauss level to 1,000 and now it's 2,000. Therefore 1,999 milli gauss is safe, which it isn't. Controlled conditions are a con!
     
  15. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Sushi,

    I have suffered this since 1969, and my suffering is extreme. I had 2 1/2 years freedom from it when I lived in an area that didn't have home radio operators who bombarded the environment with their radiation out of high powered transmitters. But, when I returned to the hometown area and cell phones and towers were popping up everwhere my ME/CFS returned with a vengence.

    When I realised that our cell phone and the local towers was causing me problems, and wireless computers, and the modems, routers, and mouse; I disabled them all and reverted back to cable and my conditions began to improved. Then the DECT phone came out and all my next-door neighbours had one, and since then I have had to suffer in silence.

    All I am trying to do is that over the past decade the increase of ME/CFS/FMS sufferers, and even some people who believe they have Lymes Disease has come about by the proliferation of the airways with microwave emissions. This I know, and any so-called controlled tests that are funded by the electronic companies show nothing and prove nothing, because they will NOT give a definite statement that they are SAFE, because WHO have already categorised RF as a possible cancer contributor. SO, if ME/CFS is a central nervous system disorder, and RF can caused cancer, then why can't it cause ME/CFS/FMS and even Lymes Disease and MS?
     
  16. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Yes it was the same for me, but I didn't take into consideration of all the electronic gear in my home and all the magnetic and electrical fields coming out of all the house power wiring, including the high tension power lines nearby and the high voltage transformer sitting on the power pole outside of my bedroom. EMF also causes the same symptoms of ME/CFS.
     
  17. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    But, did you have smart metres in your power boxes, or where any of your electrical appliances/devices called smart appliances. Or did you own a LCD or Plasma TV, or had a great home theatre Wi Fi system, or any of the other so-called modern equipment/devices that still used the frequency spectrum or emitted large amounts of magnetic and electrical fields?

    I found many ME/CFS sufferers having a hard time for so long and when they removed their DECT phone their health improved, and they had peaceful night's sleep, and their fatigue disappeared.
     
  18. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Hip,



    Thanks for your input, and I enjoyed reading your comments.



    When I was diagnosed ME/CFS they didn’t have the Karnofsky scale.



    I worked amongst the military communications field for many-many years, and worked amongst the highly powerful transmitters, HF and microwave. While serving in Vietnam my health deteriorated toward the end of my tour, and my health problems were put down to war cause. When I returned home the symptoms became worse, but no medical officer could give me any satisfactory diagnosis for my symptoms, except a virus, and it wasn’t PTDS.



    My symptoms ebbed in and out, over the next decade, and I now know that it was depending on what area I was working in at that time of my military career. But, I had no idea then what the problem was.



    This went on for another decade and a half, then I moved away from the highly density suburbia life to an extreme country life for 2 ½ years and it all disappeared. I was cured. Then when I returned back to our area of living cell phones and towers become the norm of the day (2000AD).



    The first day my wife turned ON her new cell phone my life did a 180-degree turn, and my ME/CFS symptoms began to reappear. Even then I didn’t realise it was the cell phone, until one day she turned it ON, and I felt this tingling sensation all over my body, and I could feel ants crawling up my legs.



    At night I was restless and couldn’t sleep, and after about two weeks, with much browbeating I asked my wife to turn the phone OFF at night.



    Now in 2012, I suffer extremely from all the Wi Fi hotspots and Wi Fi technology of all my next-door neighbours, and now smart metres have come in and my life is a burning sensation. I have had no peace whatsoever since 2007.



    The tinnitus is extreme, the fatigues is extreme, all the ME/CFS symptoms are extreme, so extreme I am told I am FMS, but no one will say that I am EHS, because that is what’s causing ME/CFS these days from prolonged and long-termed radiation from cell phones and towers, DECT phones, wireless computer (modems, routers, and mouse), the new G-net, Wi Max transmitters and now the smart metres and appliances; and the other radiation from magnetic and electrical fields (EMF).



    The emissions that come out of laptop computers of the magnetic and electrical fields are jut as dangerous as non-ionised radiation (RFR) from microwave equipment and devices, which is normally referred to as EMR.



    When I walk into an extreme area of Wi Fi, such as large shopping centres, and restaurants, I end up having vomiting attacks, extreme stomach pains, and nosebleeds, as if I have a viral infection when I get home, and takes me two days to get over it.



    There is no safe place were I can hide, and I can’t even find a cave.



    Most extreme FMS sufferers are EHS sufferers. I’ve seen it so much with all those FMS sufferers I have come across, they just wouldn’t listen until it was too late, and now they suffer, and won’t turn ON their cell phone or wireless computer. I even struggle on a hand held phone because of the magnetic fields and electrical fields coming out of the ear piece of the device.



    Yes, many take the same precautions of turning them OFF at night, but the only solution to the problem is to disable all the wireless and revert back to cable, but sadly in many locations that is impossible and has been made that way by the Telecom companies to get rid of cable. Smart metres and appliances are going to be the killers over the next five years, and we are already see the legal actions and demonstrations against these dangerous devices.



    You may turn OFF your stuff but your next-door neighbour is already cooking you from their equipment/devices. I gather your suffering are mild-medium, but when you get to my stage it’s debilitating and extreme. All my communications is cable in my home and I am being burnt by the smart metres and the Wi Fi security equipment in many unoccupied homes around me, and the library that is directly behind our home.



    Yes, the original cordless phone made by Uniden was dormant when not in use, but radiated more radiation than a cell phone. The new DECT phone they have released is much the same, but the radiation from the phone when talking is more dangerous than the old Uniden phones.



    In my country there is nowhere you can hide, every country area is now bathed in Wi Fi, can’t even go to the Antarctica, and the penguins are dying from the radiation, but they won’t admit to that one, but say it’s the Global Warming…. Ha-Ha!



    Oh, by the way, I live in Australia.



    Worked in the electronics field a long time in the military and have known all such things about shielding, but these days it’s impossible to shield, as I have used a special shield paint, which is then connected to an earth pin, but the earthing is so faulty, that all the dirty electricity is sucked up out of the ground and fed back into our home, because all the underground power is faulty, and to get a good earth, you have to go down ten feet.



    By the way, I gather you have heard of “dirty electricity”?



    The faraday cage is the best way to go, but all the new frequencies that are being used is getting through, and the only way I can get away from it all is to buy one of those enclosed canopies, but you will suffocate, because of the lack of ventilation and flow through air.



    The radiation comes through all the house power and light cables and piggybacked up through the earthing of the house.



    Mate, it’s never-ending.



    The conductive material is vulnerable as well as the RF can get through the weave.



    My friends do believe I am suffering paranoia, which is normal for most true-blue EHS sufferers. There is a big difference between a ME/CFS and EHS sufferer.



    Aluminium does nothing, because RFR works on reflective radiation and goes through anything, and around it. I know what you are actually saying, as from my military experiences, and what I know has been known since the early days of research of such in the late 1960s to 1970s, and all that information has been mysteriously disappeared, and for the benefit for the electronic companies.



    But, through much detective work I was able to find these reports.



    Every suggestion you can give mate has already been trialled by many experience people, decades ago.



    Yep, non-ionised radio frequency radiation is known as RFR. It comes in all forms of the frequency spectrum, and is all basically “microwave” from 100MHz to 6GHz and higher.



    I am sorry mate, but RFR can break down the DNA, and including the blood barrier of the brain. In fact it can cause many forms of cancer, as WHO has classed it as “2B” Carcinogenic.



    Since the use of cell phones our top brain surgeon has said that the increase of brain tumours in children under that age of 12 years and adults under the age of 25 years has increased by 500%. Alzheimer Disease has been known from past studies and research over the past four decades be affected by magnetic and electrical fields (EMF). And also the increase of autism, cerebral palsy, ADD, AHD in children has increased by nearly 1500% over the past decade. Even ultrasound x-rays are dangerous to the foetus and since parents liked using baby monitors the SIDS also increased.



    Sorry mate, no medical scientist will say that RFR is SAFE, they will only say that they can prove no bearing of the claims, but will NEVER say they are SAFE, because they know they are UNSAFE. How SAFE is SAFE, I ask?



    I guess you have studied the latest Bio Initiative Report and WHO Statements.



    When safety regulations are completely extreme by taking them from 100 milli gauss to 1,000 and then to 2,000 any scientist can say they are harmless but wouldn’t dare say they are SAFE, because the scientific reports by one of the top medical scientists in 1980 reported on his finding for Motorola of the dangers and was sacked, and his research misplaced. And the same company gave the US FDA a hard time and they bowed to the pressure.



    A top Naval researcher in 1970 also did much research into this and his research was ignored, and lost.



    All the information that you have shared is not the real truth, and is distorted misinformation of the dangers to health and health risks, because there are many researches and studies conducted by other medical scientists who are not being paid by the electronic companies! All they have done is replace asbestos and passive cigarette smoking with another dangerous technology.



    If it was so safe, then can you explain to me why they removed Wi Fi from all the libraries in France and many schools? Also, many Canadian schools have removed Wi Fi from their schools. And the European Parliament has already made a law in regards to the health risks by RFR.



    The electronic companies pay many scientists to be selected in their words.


    Thanks for you input and I enjoyed talking to you!
     
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  19. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Hip, any form of Wireless computer has a wireless card, the earlier notebooks and an ON/OFF switch to turn the wirelss OFF, but the wirless card still transmits and there will be RFR coming out of the wireless computer or notebook or laptop. It transmits every 58 seconds, and if you had an electrosmog metre you would be able to read the signal strength, the wattage output, and the volts/metre readings all around your computer. The only real way of disabling the wireless is to remove the wireless card from the computer. Your comments above I will comment on tomorrow as it's bed time in Australia. Regards.
     
  20. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Yes this is so, but the radiation from those phones are greater than the cell phone, so while you are using it you are radiating your brain, which then causes the symptoms of ME/CFS or FMS or EHS.
     

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