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William Switzer - CDC looking for XMRV and MLV in lab workers!

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by CBS, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. LaurelW

    LaurelW Senior Member

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    When I watched the video, I was astonished. Stoye was saying, "this means that XMRV is just contamination and it doesn't cause disease" out of one side of his mouth, and, "we're concerned about our lab workers" from the other. Guys, you can't have it both ways!!! I wonder if he knows how obvious this was.
    :headache::Retro mad::Retro mad:
  2. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Actually, I think MOST people are concerned mostly about their self own interests. The evidence is clear when you look at what we've done to the earth and our environment. Conscience remains to be a mostly a dark unexplored continent for the majority of humans on earth.

    Finding truly altruistic people, especially in a government bureaucracy, would be like finding a needle in a haystack... or a snowflake in hell... or scientist who knows how properly handle a lab sample and find XMRV in the correct cohort. :rolleyes:

    My warm fuzzy bunny was devoured long ago. Long live the wolf and his howl.

    [​IMG]
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Have I heard Switzer say "we share your concern about CFS" ...? I've never heard Bill Switzer say ANYTHING! I don't even know what he looks like. Plucking this one quote out and brandishing it about as if it means something - just because you haven't actually heard him say the same thing about CFS....not good, not fair....

    Hey stick around him for awhile and notice how he evokes concern about CDC workers and doesn't care about CFS patients - and then I'll accept what you're saying...This is not evidence in my book.

    Whether you like his work or not - the CDC has obviously been pouring money into this virus. They built their own antibody tests and validated them in the monkeys, they've been pumping out papers, they are exploring gene recombination, they've done several studies......

    You may not like what they found but interpreting that statement as a demonstration that they've only gotten interested in XMRV because their workers might have gotten infected is......does not fit for me.
  4. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    And Stoye appears to have tested himself more than once ("at least I was negative the last time I was tested". I wonder if he's tested himself multiple times in the recent past. He might be concerned about subsequent exposure or he may be serving as a "pedigreed negative" Still, it makes me wonder how much he believes in his own test.
  5. Grape Funk

    Grape Funk Senior Member

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    "Response to the comment by Gerwyn Morris posted 26 February 2011

    A Dusty Miller (02 March 2011) Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Seattle

    Morris' criticism of the article by Garson et al. is unwarranted, and stems from a misunderstanding of the difference between retrovirus integration near a gene versus integration at exactly the same site in the whole human genome. It is true that murine leukemia viruses (MLV) can often be found within or near oncogenes involved in the progression of tumors in MLV-infected mice. However, integration within 1,000 or 10,000 nucleotides of a gene is quite different from integration at exactly the same nucleotide position in a whole mammalian genome. None of the references provided by Morris show integration of a retrovirus at the same nucleotide position.

    I do agree that it would be nice to have formal support for the statement that "With the exception of a single early publication on avian sarcoma-leukosis virus, which was refuted by later work [10], sequencing studies of thousands of retroviral integration sites have to our knowledge never identified exactly the same site twice." However, given our current understanding that retrovirus integration is semi random and can target most of the 3 billion base-pair-long human genome, the authors' contention seems quite reasonable.

    Lastly, derogatory comments like "The authors are clearly not familiar with MLV viruses" have no place in these posts."

    thats the full comment
  6. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    A DARK VISION---this sounds like a good title for a movie about the idiots who are in charge of our government agencies.

    Is that Kim McCleary, they're designated chauffeur?

    [​IMG]
  7. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    There is a difference between XMRV being a contaminant and XMRV being accidentally produced in a lab. The WPI and NCI have found immunological responses to XMRV that are concordant with NAT results on the same samples. Silverman and colleagues found integration of XMRV in prostate cancer tissue; Garson et al's recent publication only debated the validity of two of the 14 identified integration sites. This is among the evidence that XMRV is a human infection. Whether it was created in a lab and then spread to humans or was already present in the samples beforehand, etc is the real question at hand. Absolutely no one has offered a contamination hypothesis that explains the results of any of the studies that have provided evidence that this virus infects humans.

    The study by Coffin about supposed XMRV precursors is not definitive, and as scientists like Mikovits, Ruscetti, Silverman, Singh and Hanson were absent from this meeting, there was not much of a counterargument at CROI.
  8. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Look at how complex and odd this is. They are still not saying its in CFS patients - the CDC has looked twice for it in CFS patients and has not found - even in the 'real CFS' patients. But some reports suggest it may be in some of their lab workers. If its a lab creation then it would make sense that it would get into lab workers first.

    They've clearly shown it can infect cells - it grows after all in prostate cancer and in lymph tissues in the lab. The question is whether it can infect people outside of the lab......the CDC reports suggest yes - maybe it can....but that doesn't help CFS patients much if they can't find it in CFS patients!

    This still doesn't mean XMRV might not be a contaminant as well. A blood sample can get contaminated by anything...mouse DNA, mouse virus, other virus......so a virus can be a contaminant just as mouse DNA can.

    The researchers appear to be leaning to XMRV being a real virus that escaped from the lab which somehow contaminated the WPI's samples but which did not infect the patients. The WPI can go a long way to proving actual infection by showing that the virus is integrated into human DNA. I honestly don't know why they or Alter/Lo haven't done that yet - that would turn the conversation in a different direction.
  9. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Cort
    yer a nice guy :) and thus TOTALLY out of touch with how the "Real World Works" (tm) I'm afraid :/

    As CBS notes, Tuskegee is actually just the *tip* of the iceberg

    we know now a reseracher the US had working on LSD and bioweapons in 1950s, who was going to blab, was murdered to shut him up, that's not conspiracy theory it's an open HOMICIDE investigation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson
    Shall we go to Gulf War Syndrome? a nation (Iraq) covered in Depleted Uranium (long as it's a foreign nation and better yet, not the buildings the Congress-critters live in they don't care!), a government in utter denial that Deplted Uranium is dangerous?
    That over 100,000 US service personnel could sufffer and die from this?
    And many US medical/researchers who are sitll saying Deplted uranium is safe or that GWS doens't exist...are either insane or participating in a cover up as they are in denial of objective reality?

    Or that oh somehow a USA B52 bomber got loaded with 6 armed nukes and was flown over the nation WITHOUT PROPER AUTHORIZATION for them even being LOADED?
    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/09/05/loose.nukes/
    why's that bad? ok not only did they scapegoat the poor sods involved, but it's impossible for that to happen by accident, anyone in military will tell you nukes dont' get touched without being signed, counter signed out the flipping ass and personally guarded by guys who'll shoot you dead no matter who you are if you get close ot 'em
    and somehow they get flown OVER the nation without authorization?! get real, something seriously massively wrong occured there...and got covered up.

    Where else would you like me ot go?
    Aerotoxic syndrome?
    Sheep dip syndrome?
    Camelford water poisoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelford_water_pollution_incident
    (above three deal with you know who and later has now been shown, in COURT to be an actual cover up)

    shall we also go into children been stolen from mothers in the UK who were told they died in birth, to reporpulate "good White stock" in Australia and Canada?
    http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/BN/sp/ChildMigrants.htm
    do NOT EVER try and suggest to me that many of those involved with Government, ANY government are not soulless, jobsworthies, cowards, scum, sociopaths, morons, vastly unqualified for anything other than cleaning bed pans and maybe not even that, capable of vile acts even though sane because they don't care (ie, evil, no insanity just chose ot be scum)

    yes some people in bureacracies manage to remain noble, kind, wise etc etc :)
    but many MORE behave as stupid or evil. please note the research experiment showing that when asked ot electrocute a person to death by a person posing as a scientist for scientific research, only 1/3rd of people will say NO!! that is a horrendous inditement of our species
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

    Simple proof of the pudding of how vile our governments are:
    if they were honest and decent, then why the hell do such vile acts almost always get uncovered by accident many years later, rather than whistleblowers STOPPING it while it occurs?
    Answer's simple:
    our governments prevent decent folk reporting such AND/OR are full of folk blindly cowardly or evilly willing to go along with these actions

    UK was the THIRD most secretive in the entire world during the COld War after North Korea and Albania, fyi.
    Vast amounts of crap just go hushed up by civil servants, "Kafka gone mad" :(
    See, for example, the Windscale reactor fire that released reactor filth into the air across NE England but of course the weather reports for that day were LOST and of course "No harm was done" yeah right no one breathed in uranium/plutonium, nope, no one...

    yes if Russia had such an accident (Chernobyl) they are "bad wicked stupid people andwe can't eat hill farmed meat or drink such meat for 20 years!" because they are our "enemies"

    But if we have such an acccident it's "Ho ho chaps it's perfectly safe keep drinking your milk!"...omg, it's mad. They were both caused by the wicked stupidity of bureacracy and politicians!!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire

    Meh.
    I love *individuals*, in groups, we're sick stupid cowardly b****rds :(
  10. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    I was referring to Tuskegee and Guatemala (http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2010/10/01/syphilis-guatemala.html). Just came to light. US made apology in October of 2010.

    Deep Water Horizon, Natural Gas "Fracking," Enron, the financial crisis and lack of Wall Street oversight, etc.

    You refer to the health agencies as thought they are the one gleaming exception.

    I do wish that I could live in your world.
  11. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I wonder what the record is??
  12. Grape Funk

    Grape Funk Senior Member

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    I've got to ask, again(comment 15), is what they are calling preXMRV2 the same as XMRV?
  13. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Very dark sunglasses! Maybe the old mirror sunglasses of the 70's! Most likely blinders!

    Good one doc.
  14. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    That was interesting. Has that "name" been used in any study till now?
  15. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I agree there is a difference. Instead of being evidence for infection, Raccaniello stated there has never been a case in which findings like Paprotka's did not indicate contamination. Hue found that the XMRV in the human population had less variation than the XMRV in the lab - if you know anything about population genetics you know what a red flag that is...that finding suggests but does not prove that XMRV came from the 22RV1 lab creation and was spread around labs and somehow ended up in both the Silverman and WPI samples.

    Contamination? - Actually at three labs thought they found XMRV and then concluded that it was contamination - all from different sources. So theoretically - there are at least 3 ways to explain the positive studies. This is not to say that that happened in the WPI - I don't think those situations applied to them - but it did show that there are multiple ways to mistake XMRV for some thing else. The ironic thing is that hardly anyone can find XMRV and the CDC in its lab workers (but not CFS patients!) is one of the few (something very ironic in that).

    Just think about that for a moment. We've been saying the CDC just can't find XMRV - and now these reports suggest that maybe they actually can! but not in the place we or they were expecting.

    Infection? - What we have now is evidence that XMRV is in blood samples but I think what the research community now wants is evidence of 'infection'; ie XMRV integration into human DNA. There's no mystery about what Alter/Lo and the WPI need to do to turn this around....show XMRV integration into human DNA (and then passing the BWG blinded tests).

    MIA - where are XMRV's supporters? the 'other side' is pumping out paper after paper yet we've heard little or nothing from Ruscetti over the past year (two review papers) and Silverman....I imagine everyone is waiting for Ruscetti to come out with his paper and has been. It was rumored ready to come out last year......Now would be a good time for it show up......Meanwhile Singh's paper languishes, Joliceur's study apparently did not turn out, the Univ of Alberta that was due to be done last year never got completed....it's tough times for XMRV.

    Talk about wearing rose colored glass and wanting to see fuzzy bunnies! Take those glasses off!
  16. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    No, go to the video and listen to the talk by Oya Cingaz (32:21).

    The interpretation is that pre-XMRV1 and preXMRV2 combined in the lab to create XMRV, a potentially infectious recombinant retrovirus.
  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    thought Stoye was meaning he'd been testing himself for HIV due ot his reseatch, not XMRV?
  18. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    Wasn't Mike Bush's Blood System's Research Institute one of those three labs that analyzed the CDC samples? And now he doesn't seem quite so sure and he's saying they ignored positives they presumed were false positives

    http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2010/07/01/cdc-teams-xmrv-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-paper-is-out/

  19. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    WOW! That's new to me. When do they think that happened? Under what circumstances? And who was responsible?
  20. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Who is talking about entire health agencies? Enron???? Deep Water???

    We're talking about the resources the HIV branch of the CDC has put into XMRV. I say they've put substantial resources into it. You say they've only starting caring about XMRV since they found out their worker might be infected.....I disagree. This is a very specific instance - one part of one agency working on one problem.

    This doesn't have anything to do with Tuskegee, Enron, the financial crisis, global warming or any other national or world crisis you want to bring up.

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