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Why probiotics can be harmful (amines!)!

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by guest, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. guest

    guest Guest

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    Some probiotics (including bacteria in Kefir) produce amines and glutamates.

    http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet/super-responders.aspx

    Strong yellow cheeses: The stronger the taste of the cheese, the higher in amines and particularly glutamates it will be.

    Kefir According to published analyses, kefir cultures are very variable in bacterial makeup. A variety of species found commonly in kefir are known to make free glutamate and amines. Lactococcus lactis (found in cheese and kefir) and a variety of lactobacillus and bifidus species produce amines.

    Probiotic yoghurt: A variety of species found commonly in so-called probiotic yoghurts are known to make free glutamate and amines. Lactobacillus casei, a common probiotic, forms free glutamates. A variety of lactobacillus and bifidus species produce amines.

    And here is the problem with amines:

    Neurotransmitters and Pseudo-Neurotransmitters

    Free glutamates form when protein is degraded by lengthy cooking or the action of autolytic or bacterial enzymes. Protein is broken down into its constituent parts, amino acids, one of which is glutamate. Amines form when amino acids are broken down even further (decarboxylated) by autolytic or bacterial enzymes. Amines should not be confused with amino acids or proteins, as these are largely safe. Free glutamates and amines are neurotransmitters. Innate capacities to neutralise dietary neurotransmitters vary widely between individuals. Multiple hormonal and genetic factors leave some people with a very low tolerance. Dietary neurotransmitters act directly to disrupt the normal neurotransmitter balance of the body and brain. Food chemical intolerant individuals can experience reactions to the following dietary chemicals:

    Amines
    Free amino acids
    Free glutamates (MSG)
    N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) and/or aspartate
    Glycine (potentially, under some interactions)
    Wayne likes this.
  2. Karin

    Karin

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    Also, kefir contains yeasts, good ones, like saccharomyces. In the family we are all sensitive to saccharomyces, so their benefits are outweight by the inflamation they cause. No kefir or kombucha for us, unfortunately... :-(
    Wayne likes this.
  3. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    Woodridge, IL
    I don't remember the details, but somehow probiotics can also create H2S as a by-product and many of us cannot effectively eliminate that from our bodies......too much of it is a neurotoxin and is also a contributor to leaky gut

    personally, probiotics were about the single worst thing I tried......and I, too, made the mistake of listening to someone else's opinion about them and what she believed was wrong with me, even though I thought/knew she was wrong.....just got tired of hearing her push probiotics on me and thought that even if I didn't need them, they wouldn't cause harm.....wow was I wrong.....they started my downward spiral of stomach issues, & before taking them my stomach was the one thing that was not a problem....now I can barely eat anything without big gut issues

    probiotics also caused other issues while I was taking them, but those at least seemed to improve after I stopped taking them.....the stomach issues seem impossible to beat
    Wayne and aimossy like this.
  4. HopingSince88

    HopingSince88 Senior Member

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    I had problems with kefir too. First time I had it there were no problems. Second time my lips and tongue swelled up. So something in there was causing an outright allergic reaction. I was very upset by this as I really enjoyed the kefir.
    Wayne likes this.
  5. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    oh, I also remember something about lactate build up from probiotics....again, I don't remember the details - this was in the same article where i read the rest of what i wrote and it's been awhile since I read it, but I do know that it sure seemed to make sense out of my bad reaction to them
  6. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    Hi All,

    I don't know the reason, but I feel that I have never benefitted at all from probiotics and that they only make me feel worse. So it is interesting to read your views and experiences. I agree with your the point to listen to your body first, not to what your friends tell you (or a healthcare practitioner for that matter.) If science had accurately mapped ME/CFS by now, it would be different. We could follow directions with more confidence. But for now TRUST YOUR BODY.

    Sing
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  7. Frank

    Frank Senior Member

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    and doesn't kefir contain alcohol, a mycotoxin. I've never been a fan of Kefir.
    Wayne likes this.
  8. camas

    camas Senior Member

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    How interesting! Thanks for posting that information. Someone on the forum mentioned that lactobacillus contributes to lactic acid buildup and said that something like Align was a better choice. I've tried lactobacillus off and on for years without seeing any benefit. Maybe it was even making matters worse? I've given the bifantis a try and my IBS type symptoms have definitely improved but, as you said, we all have to listen to our own bodies.
    Wayne likes this.
  9. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I''m not sure what to make of probiotics ... I could eat dairy kefir back in 2005 when I came down with full blown celiac disease and it helped calm my digestive tract so well. Then I figured out a year or 2 later that it was responsible for my raccoon eyes. My digestion from dairy is fine though ... I've started using ones without dairy or gluten and so far Country Life or Megaflora work for me. I also eat coconut kefir made from the Body Ecology starter kit and drink Synergy Kombucha tea.

    Funny story ... a freind of mine was over visiting once and she'd had a stomach ache ever since she had to go on antibiotics for a couple of weeks. I gave her one probiotic capsule and she was fine ... she never needed another one.

    Susan Owens, a DAN researcher has some info on probiotics / bacteria the trying low oxalate board but you'll have to join. They don't spam their members but you'll want to opt for not getting a message everytime someone posts ... lol ... I "THINK?" it was one of the VSL threads ... I need to get busy here but when I get a minute I'll look for it. Basically she said that no one knows exactly what these bacteria do for us yet. Which reminds me ... what about that study here the other day ?

    gotta get moving ... X
  10. lono

    lono

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    Since I became ill I'm intolerant of gluten and dairy. Almost all probiotics have dairy, so if any folks are similar to me, they might need a dairy-free probiotic.

    Culturelle has a decent one that's gluten and dairy free.
  11. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I eat yogurt every morning, no probiotic pills or anything else. It seems like cheese makes me nauseated now. Am I imagining that or is is cooincedence? Strange.

    I agree, you do have to just listen to your own body. We are all different.
  12. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    I take/took probiotics but have been very forgetful about taking them lately, since my digestion is much better. Then I thought that some people take LDN for Chrohn's disease and many other issues. So I think it might be the LDN which has helped my digestion. Food for thought?
  13. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    ggingues, I am on LDN, too, and it has not helped at all w/ the stomach issues for me though you may be rt that it is helping you
  14. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    I have that yeast problem too. I have even had doctors trying to get me to take saccharomyces boulardii - NO WAY!!!

    A lot of probiotics contain fructose (it's usually called FOS on the label) which is a big problem for about 45 percent of people with CFS and causes horrible tummy upset.

    I read a very interesting article on the Internet (which I now cannot find) saying that intestinal health is all about the right balance, not simply a case of probiotics=good and other bacteria=bad. I think it was reliable information as it was written by Germans who are, after all, nationally obsessed with poop. They seem to lead the world on research into SIBO and related problems.
    Wayne likes this.
  15. arjemdo06

    arjemdo06 Guest

    Not all the other people told to you are good also for you. There's a proper amount and right usage of eating yogurt. You should always need to feel what are the advntages and disadvanteges of eating yogurt to your body.
  16. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    How long have you been on LDN? I have been on it for about 9 months now and I think it took at least 6 months before this happened, I just noted it recently when I was thinking I have been pretty bad at taking my UDO's Probiotic.

    Hope this helps someone!
  17. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Wayne likes this.
  18. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

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    I found that some strains of probiotics make me really hyper. I found this actually to be made worse after I took a 2 week course of Xfiaxian (rifaximin). I could never figure out why this is, but I am guessing its provoking some sort of immune response. VSL3 is really bad in this regard. Maybe its the strep strains? I dunno.. Anyone else notice this?
    aimossy likes this.
  19. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I am very interested to read about the possibly problems with Kefir. I have been taking about 6 ounces daily for approximately 6 weeks and have been experiencing virtually daily severe migraines. Really have struggled with them and have had to take so many painkillers and I just haven't felt well at all.

    After researching it today it looks very likely that the Kefir could be the cause so I will stop it and keep my fingers crossed that it is the cause of this major problem for me.

    I find that so many things can cause migraines for me, in fact they are worse now than any time in my life and I am 65 now and this seems to be unusual. I hope I won't have to stop the small amount of natural yoghurt too that I take lunchtime because it sort of finishes off my lunch quite nicely but if that is contributing to the migraines then that will have to go too.

    Pam
    Wayne likes this.
  20. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    I have taken a shedload of different probiotics over the years. Am currently trialling one called prescriptassist. There are good reasons to think that our gut flora are as individual as our fingerprints, and its definitely not one size suits all. Having said that, I had also had a shedload of abx over the years, and am trying to find a balance.

    found the discussion at cfsmeremission.wordpress.com useful, and the at the http://pptu.lefora.com parasite forum.
    Wayne and aimossy like this.

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