Phoenix Rising: The Gift That Keeps on Giving All Year Long
This holiday season Jody Smith turns her eyes to the people of Phoenix Rising and gives thanks for you all ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Why is gabapentin+klonopin effective for sleep apnea, central apneas?

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by physicsstudent13, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    by the way why is gabapentin+klonopin effective for sleep apnea like central apneas and PLMD while one alone isn't effective? I also take both with the asv+oxygen.
    I guess that klonopin reduces the centrals and PLMD while gabapentin increases slow wave stage 3/4 sleep. I've tried other benzas too and they don't work that well
     
  2. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes:
    5,007
    I haven't heard of this. I have OSA.

    I would think it would be the opposite as any cns depressant can make apnea worse. However, I do take klonopin for Restless legs syndrome which is similar to PLMD.

    Intriguing. Do you have some sourses about this?

    Barb
     
  3. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes:
    1,179
    Ventura, CA
    Not sure but I would be very weary when it comes to benzo class drugs.
     
    physicsstudent13 likes this.
  4. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    I guess you shouldn't take benzas if you have bad side effects, but I've never had any noticeable side effects from klonopin. other than much better clarity and energy and much deeper sleep with gabapentin.
    I'm really curious how modulating the alpha GABA receptor helps with clarity and sleep? maybe the neurons in my brainstem are really messed up and dying
     
  5. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    my neurologist professor friend has a theory, OSA causes brain damage which causes CSA because of white tangles damage in the brain and this can all be cured by trach
     
  6. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes:
    5,007
    @physicsstudent13

    I'm a bit confused what you are asking.

    Do you have sleep apnea? What about CPAP?

    Barb

    ETA Untreated sleep apnea can lead to CSA and it's been documented it may cause brain damage.
     
    physicsstudent13 likes this.
  7. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    Yes I have OSA and CSA, I've tried cpap machines for 8 years and it isn't effective. which settings do you use? I keep demasking every night
     
  8. zzz

    zzz Senior Member

    Messages:
    570
    Likes:
    2,536
    Oregon
    Dr. Jay Goldstein's theory is that our whole problem comes from information gating problems in the brain. As he says in Betrayal by the Brain, "If input processing is not properly controlled, output will not be correct." If information gating doesn't work properly, the signal to noise ratio is lowered, and the ability to determine salience is impaired. This applies to both the cognitive centers and the parts of the brain that regulate the body.

    As the GABA receptors are inhibitory, it's pretty straightforward to see how modulating them can help with sleep. As for clarity, one of the things that the GABA receptors inhibit is the NMDA receptors. If these are hypersensitive, as they are in people with ME/CFS, then their output will be very noisy. Inhibition of the NMDA receptors will increase the signal to noise ratio in such a circumstance, and this is experienced as greater clarity.

    Dr. Cheney also noticed this effect, although he did not provide an explanation. But he did mention that taking a small amount of Klonopin during the day can actually increase energy. This is just a slightly different effect of improving the signal to noise ratio. With a stronger signal and less noise at the NMDA receptors, the brain works better, and is more able to control the body properly. Essentially, everything works more as it should, and this includes proper maintenance of energy levels, which is simply not possible with a low signal to noise ratio.
     
    physicsstudent13 likes this.
  9. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes:
    1,854
    I was on .5 MG of Klonopin for 12 years for sleep. It screwed me up so bad.

    At the 12 year mark, I got to where I could hardly sleep and had unbearable anxiety in addition to severe sleep deprivation. Increasing the dose didn't help a bit.

    I very, very slowly reduced the dose until I got off it. It has such a long half life. If you start having trouble with it, it's one of the worse benzos to come off of. I'm so glad to be off it.
     
    physicsstudent13 likes this.
  10. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    I tried 3 months off of klonopin and it was awful I couldn't sleep normally and the other benzas don't work well with gabapentin. I think I'm finally beginning to heal the brain damage from those 3 months of not sleeping
     
  11. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes:
    5,007
    Actuality, I have an APAP which is a CPAP but on a different setting. It's set within a certain range from the sleep study and the machine adapts the pressure as needed when you are wearing it.

    I'm not sure what country you are from, so that may make a difference how things work.

    Here is a site I find helpful. Lots of information.

    http://www.sleepapnea.org

    This is the home page of this organization. You can click on an icon which will take you to the forum. The forum has been down today so I don't have their direct URL.

    Good luck.
    Barb
     
  12. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    no even the asv doesn't work for me. does losing weight help? My BMI is only 24 though so I can't figure out if I have too much neck fat. The ENT said I have a narrowed airway
     
  13. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes:
    1,854
    My ENT told me that I have a small airway, too, and that losing weight wouldn't affect its size.
     
  14. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes:
    5,007
    My doctor told me I have a small mouth. Probably the oonly time anyone has said to me other than my dentist who has a difficult time working my teeth.:rofl:

    Barb
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  15. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes:
    1,854
    Barb, I have a small mouth and small teeth. I use a baby toothbrush. It's not dignified for a woman of my years to have a toothbrush with Barny on it!
     
    Valentijn and barbc56 like this.
  16. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes:
    5,007
    Oh, I want a Barny toothbrush! I also use a child's toothbrush. I get them from the dentist for free. But , they are solid colors. I would think you could get toothbrushes like this in any retail store. It will be an earlr holiday present for myself.

    I covet your toothbrush. :lol:

    Barb
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  17. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    my neurologist said that it could be a problem of too high or too low glutamate levels. But I think this explanation regarding signal to noise ratio makes sense, except I experience better sleep when I combine klonopin+gabapentin. I think it increases the slow wave sleep and somehow increases clarity and lowers brain fog, slow thinking speed and improves working memory. maybe only through improved slow wave sleep. but I do have bad brain fog when I don't use the asv ventilator with the klonopin+gabapentin.

    one terrible thing for cognition is drinking, it destroys brain cells and memory and causes you to have to work harder in order to think
     
    zzz likes this.
  18. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    anyway after the trach after 8 weeks I started to have clarity in the morning, on a blood test my oxygen levels were maxed out on the trach even though I felt dizzy so I wish I had kept it in now.
     
  19. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    I heard this humming noise once in my head 2 years after being assaulted and blacking out and having Bell's Palsy. is that a sign of excitotoxicity or too high glutamate or glutamine levels from over stimulation of neurons in some area of the brain? and then when I took the klonopin+gabapentin it instantly went away for some reason??
     
  20. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes:
    35
    US
    tragically I think I am in the same situation as stroke and traumatic brain injury patients. I am looking at supplements for stroke and traumatic brain injury like alpha GPC but I haven't found any to be effective. I think the rocephin really does help clarity and cognitive energy, but I lost the benefit as soon as I finished the course.

    klonopin+gabapentin doesn't seem to work with the asv; I'm still foggy and pretty tired on it after sleeping through the night on asv. maybe my asv settings are bad? I don't know if it increases slow wave more than trazodone.

    Is there anything to heal the brain from hypoxic events like citicoline injections or piracetam?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page