The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Why does Red Bull help with Freddd's protocol?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Bluelude1, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. Bluelude1

    Bluelude1

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    I've had CFS for probably 8+ years and like most I've tried any number of things over the years to get some/any reduction in symptoms. For the last several months I've also been doing the Freddd protocol and have become far more familiar with (but still always learning) which component of the dead lock quartet pulls which symptom lever. This has also made me more aware that some of the areas with the biggest deficiencies can almost instantly benefit from the smallest replenishment.

    This brings me to Red Bull, despite the social stigma that has for whatever reason become attached to it, there is something in it that provides a unique response. Within 10-20 min I start noticing a clearing of the mental cob webs and an up tick in optimism an ambition. Depending of the weight of my symptoms that day this can last 2-3hr or all the way till the end of the day. Some days a single can can cause an almost 180 degree change in my dower mood.

    That got me wondering ....what exactly is in it that could be eliciting such a response. Most people would point straight to the caffeine (80mg/ 8.4 fl oz) or sugar (27g), but it doesn't seem to be as simple as that. I don't get a similar effect from soda, which has higher amounts of both sugar and caffeine, or sports drinks. Over the years I've also tried doses of caffeine pills up to 400mg to virtually no effect.

    I have a yeast intolerance so coffee and tea aren't options, although my mother who has very similar issues gets the same response from Red Bull, but virtually no response from soda or coffee. She is someone most would consider a "health nut", but I asked her given the option when she's having particularly bad CFS issues between soda, coffee and Red Bull ... her response was "Red Bull every time"

    So what could possibly be in that can that is causing such an effect that I am missing with Freddd's protocol?

    Red Bull ingredients -
    • Carbonated Water
    • Sucrose
    • Glucose
    • Citric Acid
    • Taurine
    • Sodium Bicarbonate
    • Magnesium Carbonate
    • Caffeine
    • Niacinamide
    • Calcium Pantothenate
    • Pyridoxine HCL
    • Vitamin B12
    • Natural Flavors
    • Artificial Flavors
    • Colors
     
  2. Bluelude1

    Bluelude1

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    For reference this is what I am taking on Freddd's protocol, but by itself doesn't elicit quite the same response.

    List of Co-factor regime:
    Zinc picolinate -50mg
    Vitamin A – 10,000IU
    Vitamin E – 400IU
    D3 – 10,000IU
    B6 – 100mg
    Chromium – 600mcg
    Selenium – 200mco
    Iodine (potassium iodide) – 225mcg
    Essential Aminos – 1x
    Vitamin C – 2,000mcg
    Magnesium Glycinate – 5mg per lb
    Thorne B-Complex #6 (Divided in half) 2x a day
    Calcium egg shells – ¾ tsp daily

    Deadlock Quartet
    CountryLife Methyl B12 – 5,000mcg 2x daily
    Solgar Folate – 1000mcg
    Source Natural Dibencozide – 1x daily (hours from the Methyl B12)
    Doctors Best Acetyl Carnitine
     
  3. fishersta

    fishersta

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    It's the taurine -- it is part of the protocol.
    The taurine is part of the protocol - you can also take it as a supplement.
     
  4. L'engle

    L'engle moogle

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    Doesn't seem like you're taking a b complex? If not could be the other b vitamins. My other guess would be it gives you some magnesium or else the baking soda is clearing out lactic acid. Could be just the variety of things help you in a few ways. If it helps you it helps you! If you can find out what it is specifically you might be able to get larger amounts cheaper though. Maybe try isolating each ingredient as a supplement and testing them if you feel like devoting the effort to that.
     
    PatJ likes this.
  5. Bluelude1

    Bluelude1

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    I take 2000mg Source Naturals Taurine up to 4x a day with Molybdenum and TMG if I am having any anxiety. While it can help make me feel bit more stable, it never seems to provided the same type of boost to my optimism and energy levels.

    I'm taking 1,200mg of Magnesium Glycinate a day and Thorne B-Complex #6.

    In a lot of ways what is so perplexing is I have or am currently supplementing with a lot of the things in the ingredient list, but don't get the same effect. It's almost like a synergy of multiple components as opposed to one silver bullet.

    If you couldn't tell by my comments I know there is something there ...I just can't quite put my finger on what it is. But I agree with you, I would much prefer to identify the responsible ingredient to maximize the benefits, minimize cost and minimize the consumption of the undesirable components.
     
    helen1 and L'engle like this.
  6. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I know that methylation helps allot of people but lately I've been wondering about the importance of niacin, because niacin seems to help me and methylation does not. Niacinamide converts to NAD, and...

    http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=16953

    And there seems to be a decent amount of Niacinamide in red bull, although I can take 10x as much.
     
  7. Bluelude1

    Bluelude1

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    To further dissect the make up of Red Bull ... these are the supposed quantities of certain ingredients used:
    • Taurine - 1000mg
    • Caffeine - 80mg
    • Niacin (B3) - 20mg
    • Pantothenic Acid (B5) - 5mg
    • Pyridoxine HCL (B6) - 5mg
    • Vitamin B12 - 5mg
    • Glucose & Sucrose - 27g
    Now one capsule of Thorne B-Complex #6 contains the following:
    • Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 40 mg.
    • Riboflavin (25 mg as Riboflavin and 3.6 mg as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 28.6 mg.
    • Niacin (as Niacinamide) 80 mg.
    • Vitamin B6 (200 mg as Pyridoxine HCl and 6.8 mg as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 206.8 mg.
    • Folate (100 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 100 mcg as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 200 mcg.
    • Vitamin B12 (50 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 50 mcg as Methylcobalamin) 100 mcg.
    • Biotin 80 mcg.
    • Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 45 mg.
    • Choline Citrate 40 mg.
    • Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, Magnesium Citrate Laurate, Silicon Dioxide.
    Makes me wonder if its as much the delivery mechanism as it is the specific combination of vitamins. If you look at the combination of other ingredients such as carbonated water, sodium bicarbonate, simple sugars and caffeine they may play as much if not more of a role.

    I know caffeine is used in a lot of pain relief medication to improve effectiveness. There have been studies done that show the carbonation of coke is as much the cause of fat transport when eating a burger and frys as anything else. Meaning you could drink soda water and facilitate much the same negative result.

    I am certainly open to suggestion.
     
    L'engle likes this.
  8. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    Have you tried having soda water with your supplements? Or soda water plus bicarb with your supplements?
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Why do you say that Red Bull helps with Freddd's protocol, as opposed to Red Bull just helping on its own?

    Do you only get benefits from Red Bull when you take it in conjunction with vitamin B12?
     
  10. Bluelude1

    Bluelude1

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    I have not yet. I was actually hoping someone more knowledgeable in nutrient transport would offer some input.

    My wording could have been better. The point I was trying to make was with adequate supplementation in many of the same nutrients why would Red Bull in particular elicit such a unique response? Especially considering its nutritional value was so low compared to other supplements I was already taking like the Thorne B-Complex #6.
     
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Because red bull gives you wings ;)
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @Bluelude1

    I also find Red Bull a nice pickup for a few hours; plus I enjoy the taste, which I find quite subtle. It's the drink I usually have whenever I do go to a pub / bar (which is rarely). Though I don't think I experience quite the degree of benefit that you do.

    The primary ingredients of Red Bull are:

    Caffeine 80 mg
    Taurine 1000 mg
    Glucuronolactone 600 mg

    Ref: here and here.

    Although I read in Wikipedia that as of 2014, the glucuronolactone has been removed.

    Glucuronolactone is interesting, because glucuronolactone has been shown to inhibit the synthesis of toxic by-products of intensive exercise as well as other negative effects causing fatigue (Tamura et al, 1968).

    When human subjects were given an energy drink containing a combination of glucuronolactone, caffeine, and taurine, it was found that they experienced improvements in aerobic and anaerobic performance compared to those receiving a control (Alford et al, 2001).

    Ref: Glucuronolactone Benefits, Effects, Dangers
     
    Sea likes this.
  13. Bluelude1

    Bluelude1

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    I think they have reformulated it a number of times over the years. In fact I seem to remember years ago it guarana in it.

    Whatever they've done though it seems the formula has been streamlined, but the effects still exist.
     
  14. caledonia

    caledonia

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    As a guess, I would say it's the delivery mechanism, as @Bluelude1 mentioned. The ingredients are in a liquid form, which makes them more absorbable and also quickly absorbed.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    perhaps it's the bicarb.
     

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