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Why does it seem like cfs only started in the last forty years or so?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by knackers323, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Lead poisoning began with the Romans. Since they started widespread use of lead it started appearing in Antarctic ice cores dated to that time, if I recall correctly. Coal and oil fired powerplants also pump out masses of radiactive material, though typically with relatively short half lives.
     
  2. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    As Tito mentioned, thanks to internet and CFS communities like ours, there is now publicity, and CFS is recognized as a distinct disorder. Maybe CFS has existed for more than 40 years.
     
    SOC likes this.
  3. Stretched

    Stretched

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    After reading this month's featured article on the 'Vaccination Onset of M.E...(Andrew Gladman), I reviewed some compelling arguments from the 1950's, regarding BIG controversy surrounding the Salk Vaccine (and subsequent iterations) and mass immunizations of these "poisons."

    This follows my earlier posts in another thread re: observations that stress precipitates M.E. (sic, read as 'argument: causes' ,~)

    Wow! IMO, research oriented PWC's should at least read one chapter of a 1956 book "The Hidden Dangers In Polio Vaccine," 1956 ('Chapter 10 of "The Poisoned Needle" by Eleanor McBean).
    It and addenda can be found at http://www.whale.to/a/mcbean6.html.

    Inferentially, what we PWCs may be suffering from IS a form of Polio ( entervovirus) as a result of immunizations from the 1950's (aside, coincidentally, when I got mine); and subsequently with ongoing administration of related vaccines, and/or immediate or delayed reactions to them; and/or the indeterminate time of protection as acknowledged by Jonas Salk (as referenced).

    It follows as an etiology of M.E. for Baby Boomers as well as their offspring (and theirs).

    Here's a sample of the material referenced from above at THAT time:

    "...This break-down and disintegration of life cells is not a result of invasion of germs or viruses but is due to the interference with the chemical balance that holds the structure in a state of normal functioning. When poisons from such things as vaccines, drugs, narcotics, contaminated and devitalized foods etc. cause degeneration of the cells and disease, the condition is usually labeled according to the location of the most decay. For instance, when there is inflammation of the kidney it is called Bright’s Disease; if it is in the joints, it is arthritis, in the stomach it is ulcers, in the lungs, we call it tuberculosis, in the pancreas, it is diabetes and when there is inflammation of the brain and spinal cord affecting the nerves and muscles it is called POLIO."

    Ibid: "ALL VACCINES CAUSE POLIO"...

    Interesting stuff - perhaps the real thing... .

    BTW, for challengers - I'm just the messenger. Let the tomatoes fly,~)
     
    merylg likes this.
  4. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Alex
    as said before, right beside me used to be one of the biggest steel manufacturing complexes in the world
    when I was a thigh school which was mile and a half away, physics class, we turned Geiger counter towards it, spiked at least x5 or x6 above norm, at that range, and since dispersal in inverse that would suggest very high levels at the origin: the factory (in those terms it would be high, but not like a reactor, just huge amounts of C14 from the coking plant and on site power plant, plus all the thousands of tons of metal ores of all types. Huge piles of chrome, nickel etc.)
    so over time those of us nearby got dosed with heavy metals, much higher than normal radiation (just like folk who live in granite rock areas due to radon gas) etc, then you add vaccines, pesticides and so on.
    "many a mickle makes a muckle"
    hence as one GP said, he'd never ever seen rates of cancer, early death and chronic health problems like we have here, compared anywhere else in Western Scotland he'd been, and THAT says a lot.

    Stretched
    I see no reason to suspect Polio is not the disease it is claimed ot be, but yeah vaccines...so many issues
    you have to realize that many diseases cause harm by toxicity either by direct means (specific poison like botulism) or break down products. the potency and pernicious abilities of such are incredible and awful :/
    and you can see how cholera followed along the Silk Road, or later from sailing ships bilges etc as ways in which disease spread

    but, we simply do not know the consequences of playing God
    smallpox was terrible, but the categorical unequivocal mantra that "getting rid of it was good", as an absolute, is damn stupid, as we learn more and more the consequences of altering things can be initially subtle but eventually profound. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
    "Getting rid of smallpox helped save millions of lives, but it may have unintended harm as well" is factual way of putting it.
     
  5. Stretched

    Stretched

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    Silver,

    'Couldn't sleep... . Please indulge my waxing philosophically on your post speaking to me.

    I see the intended point about interference... . OTOH, there would be no Europe had someone not traced
    the plague back to the rat...or to the water pump!

    Maybe there will be fewer of us anywhere if someone doesn't trace curving diseases (a la M.E.) back to some source and try to do something to stop our own demise. When a fire begins to rage it's human nature's call for self preservation to stop it - irrespective of the unknown consequences.

    History is all about interference - had we not stopped Hitler we would all be speaking one language.

    The Muse has spoken. 'Good night.
     
    Tito likes this.
  6. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    I agree that it's difficult to tell what diseases existed earlier. At some times they just said "so-and-so is always sickly", without knowing how to identify chronic illnesses.
     
    SOC likes this.
  7. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    There has always been outbreaks of ME. Even Australia has had 3 outbreaks of ME (two in 1950s.. Interesting my nanna who has FM she lived in a city in which there was an outbreak near the suburb the outbreak was in so frequency in that suburb. .. and she has 4 grandchildren (from different sons) who now have ME/CFS.. so I know there is a ME/CFS link throu her.

    Could she have picked up something in the 1950s.. which was passed then down in the family?
    ........

    If you look at charts of many infectious diseases.. you will see they go epidemic at times in history. Maybe the 1950s was one of the times when ME was?

    I added ME to an wikipedia epidemic list in the past with the years and places it happened.. (no idea if anyone removed it).

    ME has always been around.. re Florence Nightengale. Maybe thou things like vaccinations could make it more common nowdays.
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  8. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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  9. Very Similar to Borrelia infections.
     
  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    They should make ME (once it is separated from CFS) a reportable disease.. so they can monitor outbreaks.
     
    alex3619 likes this.
  11. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    It doesn't.

    there's the booklet "Rest in the Treatment of Nervous Disease“ by dr. Weir Mitchell. He restored chronically fatigued women and overmarched soldiers back to health. With rest and beef broth. In 1875.

    It's a booklet of 100 pages and I'll give you a quote from the final alinea:
    "We soon learned to treat these cases by rest in bed, with porter, beef soup, and strychnia."
    (strychnine?!)

    for those who can't handle long texts: just read the first half of page 97 to get an idea of his approach.

    He sees the good of rest but also the bad (lower heartbeat, lower bowel movement, lower appetite) and he counters this by massages and rectal feeding. And rest means rest: no nagging family, no knitting, (no tv, no computer)

    edit: I think it was called differently. "neurasthenia" was one term for it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
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  12. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    @Woolpipi

    Does the author describe the symptoms of his patients? That is, do they suffer symptoms other than fatigue?
    That would be interesting.
     
  13. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    @SilverbladeTE

    I grew up in a steel making town in ne England which was closed down in the early 80's and now has very high degrees of sicknesses especially strokes l think. Everywhere was coated with a film of pink dust. It was known as Red City and little did l know at the time that it would be in my lu.ngs as well as on the windowsills and turning the white terry nappies on the washing lines pink. What did we matter?
     
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  14. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Brenda
    we were nothing, slaves, always have been , always will be unless things change, but it's world wide, everyone is now dying every minute of every day EVERY person on earth from radiation, that our bodies have to keep repairing, and heavy metals, and organophosphates...and others

    If our species survives, I bet 500+ years from now they will be taking every body in every cemetery and breaking it down to extract every dangerous atom and radioactive, and all the soil for miles and miles...because it all keeps killing and sickening and will for millennia.
    sigh
    All the wealth and power of the world is not worth the tears of a single child

    scum think that's naïve, no, THEY are the ones who are truly naïve

    IIRC, it was Aristotle who first noted the link between metal smelting and ill health, that's how far back it goes
    but, no, little grey men in little grey suits have ALWAYS been the worst killers, not the psychos or even kings, but the twats who think the ends justify the means, that some are more deserving of life than others etc etc, they are the empowerers of the monster eating us alive.
    Himmler, and Mengele are great examples but again that's making too much of it, they are legion, small, millions, everywhere, soulless, "jobs worthies".

    It's why I keep telling folk there are only THREE kinds of people: good, bad and useless.
    race creed colour doesn't matter a damn, and useless isn't disabled etc, it's those who chose not to care, who'd walk over a dying man but neither have the hate to hurt, nor the wretchedness to steal his last pennies, lack the compassion AND will to help, those who would ignore are the biggest threat.

    indeed some of the worst do know better but refuse to try when they could, fear from extreme retribution etc is understandable and forgivable, but if you can just say "hey this isn't right!" but don't....


    seen so much crap from such people :(
    "class" is bullshit, yet so many thirst after it because being "over" someone, being superior the think makes them uber, immortal...hence why such is so pernicious and prevalent in the "professional" classes to higher extent than actual aristocrats etc who've "Made" it or simply don't' care about such bullshit

    the rector at high school I was at was more concerned with keeping the "reputation" of the school, so he could get his pension etc, worthless git let scum run rampant rather than get things fixed, so he threatened ME for beating up two of the five thugs who attacked me in a notorious incident, but I'd warned cops earlier and they knew the SOBs, but it shows you how such things as churches covering up child rape happens: reputation = power, influence, money

    just before she died mum told me same happened years before at primary school (regarding cover up), psychopath pulled knife on me demanded my pocketmoney, I went berserk, first time I'd ever done that, came round few seconds later with him on the deck and his face smashed in from one punch, years later same guy got 8 years for attempted murder of pal of mine in a truly savage, sustained attack

    so I was too young to realize the brouhaha with primary school incident
    same thing, school covered it up, that lad went on to a life of violent crime, maybe good psychiatry etc may have helped him, maybe saved his victims
    and that "berserk" state isn't anger, you...slow down, conscious mind slips away, body/"Mechanical" mind works on heightened pure drive
    you feel horribly...violated, less, when you snap back, not tiredness as folk think it's...hard to explain, not nice.
    that's how far folk pushed me...and MANY others over the years,
    cycles of abuse, poverty, pollution violence....mad stupid sick WASTE

    such small petty filth keeps empowering webs of evils..like the pollution
    they KNEW when they built such things it would harm, but hey "Jobs are needed! etc and duty of care, responsibility safety go right out the window, it's the "Jaws" scenario, you know?
    Screw the surfers' lives, the town needs those tourist dollars! :p

    I tried warning folk back when Ravenscraig was running that it was killing folk, but no one wanted to know, scared for jobs etc etc :(

    worst thing I can imagine is a parent losing their kid. how many miscarriages, necessary abortions, malformed kids, childhood leukaemia etc has all this crap caused? (latter has affected my family but fortunately she survived)

    you find many terrible stories of the neglect, arrogance, pettiness and harm such cause, you'll know I'm sure.
    absolutely pathetic :(
     
  15. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    bit confused as to your meaning? :)

    Ok Dr John SNow was the guy who figured the cholera outbreak came form the well
    what they do NOT tell you about is that afterwards they treated him like crap , it was a "coincidence" some of them said at the time
    he challenged the authority, he was right, ergo he was dirt to some of them, prophets have no honour in their own country. Germ theory wasn't accepted to much later
    see Ignaz Semmwelweiss and many other such cases through history
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Snow_(physician)

    Getting rid of Polio is like going back in time to kill Hitler as a CHILD
    You simply do not know the consequences. You wouldn't even know if he's the same Hitler by the way since doing that you may already be in an alternate timeline and that Hitler could be a mild mannered pacifist or whatever.

    Smallpox was a terrible plague and stopping it was a needed thing, but...you do not know the consequences, we Humans no so damn little, people who are so self assured keep dropping us in crap *we know NOTHING for certain*
    ME/CFS may be related to vaccines, it may not, it may be triggered but not caused by vaccines, or radiation...or who knows what is the deep original basis?
    .
    Jenner didn't know about bovine leukemia virus when he made the first vaccinations, he may have thus had a hand in creating HTLV..or not, the complexities get mind boggling.
     
  16. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    More prevelant for a variety of reasons, number one being the rise of vaccinations!
     
  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/28-rules-of-thumb.941/

    27. The single biggest danger to the human race is ignorance. The second greatest cause of ignorance is not lack of education, but the teaching of dogma. Lack of education in reason is the third biggest cause. Lack of education on facts is a mere fourth place.

    28. The single greatest cause of ignorance is the size and complexity of the universe. No mortal can know more than a sliver of a slice of a fraction of the whole. The human race itself only knows a tiny piece of the total.


    We have to learn to function rationally despite ignorance and uncertainty. When we can do that we can finally say the human race has grown up.
     
  18. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    I think the rise of chemical pollution is the major factor. Undoubtedly infectious causes or triggers are implicated in many cases, but I have to wonder if that would lead to ME if we weren't already neurologically, immunologically, and/or genetically compromised by the increased environmental toxicity. Organophosphates are probably implicated especially, being both neurotoxic and disruptive or damaging to the parasympathetic nervous system, AND endocrine disruptors. I think they were first developed in the 1930s by the Nazis (or Germans of that era, at least), and then I believe went into more widespread use a little later, after the infamous DDT started being used.

    That would fit the ME/CFS timeline perfectly for modern breakouts, but whether ME/CFS existed before the time frame we're talking about (about 40-50 years?) who can really say. It probably did in select cases where there was genetic predisposition, infectious trigger, and other environmental factors in place (high cultural stress, war, famine, etc.). But I doubt it had the prevalence that it does now. And the main thing that's different is the rise of environmental pollution, including radiation, which I think Silverblade mentioned. We truly are canaries in the coal mine, imho.
     
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  19. Hmmm, Lets see..... What happened about 40 years ago and has spread like the plague?

    Check out my professional profile and connect with me on LinkedIn. http://lnkd.in/beSi5_T
     

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