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Why do I get muscle pain from talking too long?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by anniekim, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    I understand Melvin Ramsey observed muscle fatiguability after minor exertion, but what I have never understood is why do I get painful muscles even after taking for too long with no physical exertion. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    You use muscles when you talk and you need your brain to talk.
     
  3. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Thank you. When you say you use muscles to talk, are you referring to the muscles used to talk? I get very painful muscle ache and burn in my arms how does that relate?
     
  4. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Maybe you are mute and use sign language? ;)
     
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  5. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    hi @anniekim
    I think this has to do with mental exertion, which can have the exact same symptom exacerbation as physical exertion. During social interaction our brain is super active: listening, processing, reacting, forming thoughts, speaking, ... Depending on who you talk to and what you talk about, this could also be extra exhausting: talking about a sensitive subject, talking with someone who you don't get along with very well, talking to a friend who you haven't seen for a while and there is SO much to talk about and so many facts to take in...

    I love talking to friends, but to be honest it leaves me completely exhausted. So I started thinking about how I could make it better. Over the years I have tried to develop ways of talking that make me less prone to PEM afterwards. I don't know what your situation is, but I was thinking maybe you could try to remember some of the latest conversations you've had:
    *Were there any unnecessary extra sensory stressors (e.g. music in the background, other people having a different conversation closeby, disturbance of light or smell, ...)? (that's a big one for me - makes my brain bounce all over the place, so I keep them to a bare minimum)

    *Were you sitting/standing up? (you could try always sitting/laying down while having a conversation)

    *Did the conversation last very long? (maybe next time cut it short?)

    *Was it over the phone or in person? (phone for me is more exhausting - when talking over skype or sth similar I can lay down and don't have to keep my arm up)

    No idea if you can relate, just my 2 cents (or pennies ;)).
     
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  6. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    Talking wipes me out. I get chest tightness and a sore throat. Just one of those things I live with.
     
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  7. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    You need your breathing muscles to talk.

    Do you gesture much when you talk?
     
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  8. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    No idea but I get the same ache and burn in my upper arms from mental exertion - though not physical. Physical exertion, on the other hand, usually gives me brain fog. :rolleyes:
     
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  9. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Any exertion is exertion and uses up the same 'fuel' that fuels our entire body. The shin-bone's connected to the knee-bone kind of thing...
     
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  10. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Thank you everyone. I almost didn't ask as I imagine it would appear daft to many whom understand how it all connects, so I appreciate the replies.

    Thanks Effi. I do pace my talking as much as all other activities, Including managing the sensory input . (I am bedridden 24/7) but always good to hear how others do it too.

    I was more interested in why the muscles in my arms get so painful from mere talking over my limits. Danny's explanation that exertion of any kind uses up the same fuel that fuels our entire body has helped me understand it a bit better. In my simple mind's eye I was viewing it well I am not using my arm muscles when I talk (I don't gesticulate much!! ) so why are they getting so sore and achey?
     
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  11. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Some flu-like symptoms (body aches, headache, nausea, fatigue, etc) are caused by cytokines in flu, ME, and lots of other infections. If we are having an inappropriate cytokine response to exertion, mental or physical, we are going to get flu-like symptoms from minor exertion. My guess is that the mental exertion (the brain uses more energy per kg than muscles) is causing a cytokine response, indicating you are over-exerting mentally. :(
     
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  12. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Thanks SOC, very helpful
     
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  13. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    @anniekim
    I may have stumbled across the reason why your arms can hurt after excessive talking. According to this document about Neurally Mediated Hypotension:
    Talking requires concentration, concentration can lead to vein dilation, vein dilation can lead to blood pooling. Blood pooling means your arms wouldn't be getting the nutrients they need which may lead to muscle pain.
     

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