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Why do I feel better with Milk Thistle?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by dmholmes, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    So my typical day has been ~10 hours sleep at night, 7.5 pre-CFS, and naps or crashes during the day requiring more sleep :sleep:. When I take milk thistle, or liver support products that contain it, I typically only need 8 hours sleep and no nap or crash during the day :thumbsup:. Anybody have ideas on mechanism other than increased detoxification? And what to do to pursue this further?
     
    Beyond likes this.
  2. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    could be due to clearing out free radicals and toxins and helping to urinate out and de toxing these damaging free radicals.. I remember before you mentioning having lyme co infections.. Well with lyme you can accumulate toxic levels of ammonia internally and keeping good hydration and detox can clear all this out..

    Excessive ammonia levels can have very adverse effects in the body, especially the brain.. Sleepiness, depression, personality changes, erratic behavior, psychosis, extreme fatigue, and all kinds of other symptoms can happen from excessive ammonia if not cleared out of the body, especially from the blood brain barrier.
     
  3. rwac

    rwac Senior Member

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    Milk thistle increases the liver storage of glycogen. Other causes of low liver storage of glycogen would be inadequate carb consumption and hypothyroid.
     
  4. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    Milk thistle also increases glutathione.
     
  5. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I agree. Plus anything that helps improve liver function should probably help with both sleep issues and 'energy'.

    Having said that, I'd love to be able to sleep 10 hours a night. :)
     
  6. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

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    Wow you found something that delivers more restful sleep!! That is an awesome thing.

    I would look into more liver/detox tonics if I were you, it is a start bearing in mind that is the main effect of Sylimarin.
     
  7. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @dmholmes
    glad to hear you feel better on milk thistle - the first time I got ill I took this religiously, since getting ill again I haven't been able to tolerate it, what strength and brand do you use? I think practically every nutritionist/herbalist you read about recommends this herb for the liver.
     
  8. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    I was just reading about thyroid and how the body converts T4 (storage hormone) into T3 (active hormone) all day long. When there's stress or illness the liver deactivates T3 into rT3 (reverse T3) and this is very taxing to the liver. Not to mention you lose a lot of active hormone.

    Milk Thistle (and liver cleansing) has two workings: it supports the liver and it lowers the inactive rT3 in favour of the active T3. Tadaah, perhaps a partly explanation for your experience?

    It also states that Milk Thistle will lower Ferritin and that iron-supplement is advised. And Selenium too. Also, Milk Thistle not made from the seeds may have estrogenic effect, it says.

    you can read for yourself here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3/
    look for word "milk" for the alinea I'm qouting.
     
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  9. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Thanks @Martial, certainly sounds possible. Looking into the ammonia connection...
     
  10. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    @dannybex, yeah I bet a lot of people would :). Perhaps I should have said 10 hours of unrefreshing sleep versus 8 hours of refreshing sleep.
     
    dannybex likes this.
  11. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Thanks @maryb. When I first stumbled on to this last year I was taking Super Thisilyn 3x/day. I've been using Geneutics organic milk thistle this week 1x/day.
     
  12. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info @WoolPippi. That's certainly another possible explanation. I've had elevated rT3 in the past. My TSH has been steadily rising also, 4.0 last check.

    My ferritin has been somewhat elevated for a while, around 260. But on last check it was 194. My iron has been okay, usually around 105. But my TIBC and UIBC have been below range for quite a while.
     
  13. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Maybe off topic, but I was very interested a while back to read a paper on Medline that a study had been done using milk thistle extract on cancer patients undergoing chemo.
    It positively protected their livers from chemo damage.:thumbsup:

    The only official study I know of, using MT. And it was positive!
     
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    The increase in intracellular glutathione induced by milk thistle may well explain why, while taking this herb, you seem to need less sleep. See this:

    Note that Immunocal is a brand of whey protein isolate.

    If increased intracellular glutathione in indeed the explanation of why you need less sleep, then there are other supplements that also increase intracellular glutathione that you might try: undenatured whey protein isolate is effective for this, and N-acetyl-cysteine, SAMe, and alpha lipoic acid also raise intracellular glutathione. And there is a product called ASEA which increases intracellular glutathione by 500%. Ref: here.

    Though if you look online, you see that whey protein isolate can cause insomnia.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
    Ninan likes this.
  15. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    I thought only undenatured whey is effective?
     
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Yeah I think that's right. I will insert the word undenatured in my post above.

    It says here that: "undenatured" whey products are processed at lower temperatures than typical powdered whey protein. This requires a meticulous filtering process to maintain purity. The lower temperature preserves the fragile, but powerful, biologically active proteins, lactoferrin, and immunoglobulins in whey."
     
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  17. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Thanks @Hip, very possible. My GSH has been below range, GSSH above range both times I've done a methylation pathways panel.
     
  18. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    And to extrapolate, perhaps elevated GSSH causes my sudden exhaustion/crashes? Then when it is taken care of I recover?
     
  19. picante

    picante Senior Member

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    http://metabolichealing.com/thyroid-solutions-glutathione-t4-t3-conversion/
    This article is written at a fairly basic level, but it does give references. Since I've been on T3-only for years, the couple of paragraphs on the role of glutathione gave me a big clue about my T4-T3 conversion.

    So I'm going to give milk thistle a try. I've been trying to increase glutathione with methylation supps (I'm still blocked by high ammonia/sulfite/glutamate), then with reduced L-glutathione cream (which eventually gave me glutamate toxicity).

    It might actually work, if it's reducing the rate of glutathione oxidation, as it says here:
     
    Violeta likes this.
  20. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I think the reason goitrogens are said to affect thyroid activity is because they affect conversion of T4 to T3, not because they actually decrease T4 production. So would what you mentioned in your post have to do with the effects of goitrogens, sulforaphane? I don't know, and I can't figure it out, my brain is not working today because of having to work last night and then not being able to sleep.
     

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