The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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Why do antibiotics help most of us?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by ECAsson, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. ECAsson

    ECAsson

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    Many of us accept that CFS/ME - CFIDS are the result of a virus pathology (when Lyme and its other bacterial/parasitic co-infections are being excluded), be it EBV/CMV/HPV 1-2-6-7-8, Coxsackie family/enterovirus etc.

    Then why do most of us experience improvement while being on antibiotics?
     
  2. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    some docs think autoimmune disease is caused by intracellular bacteria. my cfs specialist believes this disease is also being caused by intracellular bacteria.

    why the disease often starts with a viral illness is still a mystery to me, but maybe it has some effect on gut bacteria?

    my doc finds lyme in a very high percentage of his patients.
     
  3. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I don't think most of us experience improvement while on ABX - some people do, but I don't have any improvement, and I don't think it's a majority who do. And Daffodil may very well be right as to the people who are helped by ABX.
     
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  4. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    Doxycycline has many effects so it might not be the 'antibiotic' property that is causing some people to feel better.

    I wasn't aware that antibiotics help most of us.
     
  5. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    well the response to rituximab kinda implicates its not viral in a pretty big subgroup, as fluge & mella say so themselves. The fact that many has a viral onset is only correlation before we find some hard evidence implicating causation.
     
  6. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

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    I've taken Doxy for 6 years to stop my acne rosacea getting more out of control - all it seems to do is make me constipated!
    I do sometimes wonder if I've got Lyme and the Doxy is keeping it at bay...
     
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  7. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    i tired doxy for a while 10 yrs ago and it did nothing. but now, lyme antibiotics caused herxing and eventually ended up helping me....so who knows whats going on.

    a researcher told me there is some signaling coming from the gut. the gut is important somehow

    xo
     
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  8. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I wasn't either and the worst reactions I've ever had have been to ABX! I think I am in the auto-immune subgroup and will need different things to help me.
     
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  9. wdb

    wdb Senior Member

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    I didn't think most did, they do nothing for me.
     
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  10. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    I'm no expert on this, but I think there has been evidence in recent years that some antimicrobials have anti-inflammatory / immune modulation properties independent of their ability to kill or inhibit the growth of microorganisms. It's not too hard to find papers on this, but I'm not sure how broadly the concept is accepted.

    If true, then perhaps these effects are enough have an impact on ME in some people.
     
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  11. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    I don't know if antibiotics (abx), have helped most of us. Many folks here have written that abx were part of the cause of their ME.

    Antibiotic treatment can worsen someone's condition if used willy nilly, without some testing or suspicion of pathogen type. Killing certain microbes can leave room for others to grow., e.g., c. diff., etc.

    The use of antibiotics has helped me in many ways, but not without side effects. Still, I've improved.

    There seems to be an interesting relationship between viruses and bacteria.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4249342/

    http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003057
     
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  12. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    @Forbin my local infectious disease specialist told me that one would have to take huge amounts of antibiotics for the anti inflammatory effects to make that much difference.

    @Gingergrrl could it be possible that the bad reactions you have from abx is some kind of bacterial die-off?
     
  13. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I don't believe so in my case. I had a systemic neurotoxic reaction to levaquin that nearly tore my tendon (before I was ill) and then two years later I tried an antibiotic when my then PCP thought I had strep but it was really mono and also had bad reaction. I just don't seem to tolerate ABX well.
     
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  14. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what weight to give to them, but here are some examples of articles I came across...

    Mechanisms of Action and Clinical Application of Macrolides as Immunomodulatory Medications
    http://cmr.asm.org/content/23/3/590.full

    Anti-inflammatory effects of macrolides—an underappreciated benefit in the treatment of community-acquired respiratory tract infections and chronic inflammatory pulmonary conditions?
    http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/55/1/10.abstract

    Macrolide therapy of chronic rhinosinusitis.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18085018

    There are also some non-antibiotic macrolides that are immnosuppressant, as well as subgroup of macrolides that are antifungal (e.g. nystatin)
     
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  15. ECAsson

    ECAsson

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    I for one, whenever I take antibiotics, I turn into a completely new and healthy person. No sore throat, no flu-like symptoms, no infection-feeling, no brain fog, no depression/anxiety anymore.
     
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  16. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    This makes sense and I think this helps explain the different subgroups b/c I have absolutely zero sore throat, infection feeling, flu-like symptoms, brain fog, depression, etc.

    My symptoms are POTS/OI, low blood pressure, severe shortness of breath and lung weakness, MCAS and crazy allergic reactions, and now learned that I have two rare autoimmune-antibodies and possible neuromuscular issues from these antibodies.

    And I think there are many more illness groups or subgroups to be determined.
     
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  17. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    In the 25 years that I have been taking antibiotics for sinus infections, I have never had any improvement in my CFS symptoms. In fact, lately the antibiotics have been making my CFS worse.
     
  18. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    I think antibiotics might calm microglial activation,I saw something about them helping schizophrenia.
     
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  19. powertool4

    powertool4

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    Idk about everyone else but antibiotics will destroy me. it's what caused my crash i the first place. that being said, the question should be not Why does antibiotics help or hurt, but why is it able to influence our wellbeing and health to such a severe level? And new literature and research in gut microbiome and probiotics show that the gut bacteria plays a HUGE influence on our health. The signals, for immune reaction, allergies, heart palpitations, everything.

    I would however, go so far as to say most people with CFS have gut issues one way or another.
     
  20. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    ABX help most of us? That's news to me. Personally, each course I took pushed me further into disability.
     
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