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Why can't we treat mental illness by fixing the brain?

Messages
54
Even anxiety and depression could be due to physical problems like gutproblems and bacteria, hormons etc... Or due to overstimulation of the brain by working to hard etc... It is not always pure mentally. I would like to know what the definition is for a mental illness. I don't believe all problems come from childhood trauma's and wrong thougths. It is bullshit :) Psychiatry is a waste basked for doctors who don't know what causes the symptoms of a patiënt. It is like blaming the victim becasue they are mentally incapable to understand everything. Most doctors can't deal with this.

Even if people don't have underlying gut problems/dysfunctioning hormones etc... the unique thought process that people have is initially not under their conscious control. It's more like, our brain subconsciously interprets an event and tries to make sense of it, then creates a reaction in our conscious mind that is what we know as our "thoughts". Scientists have still not been able to understand how the thought process works, and why it works differently in certainly people and not others. It is possible that childhood traumas and negative life experiences alter these thought processes, but it is not someone consciously thinking oh, this bad thing happened to me so I am never going to put myself in this situation again. It is highly likely that just like genetics and the environment, the brain and the environment are completely interconnected. Thus, a negative life event may actually cause physiological changes in the structure/electrical environment of the brain in ways that we do not yet understand. Nevertheless, it is noted the brain can influence itself quite a bit, such as in mindfulness/positive thinking; but it is also shown that this does not work in everyone. To me, it almost seems as if the mind has a mind of its own, and the conscious control we have over it is minimal at best. Optimism will only work if our mind truly believes those positive thoughts, and if it has substantial reasons not to then it won't.

DISCLAIMER: Not a medical/scientific professional, merely a health sciences student. Please, take everything I have just said with a grain of salt :p
 

WoolPippi

Senior Member
Messages
556
Location
Netherlands
Even if people

Could you please put some white lines into your paragraphs next time? It's overwhelming to read a wall of text and I'm very interested in your writings :)

On a side note, my optimisms seem to come from an abundance of noradrenaline and dopamine; having enough vit D3 and Zinc and not eating vanillin. Thank you genetic brain chemistry ;)
Just an anecdotal story.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
I think there is interest, especially since the s***show that was the DSM5 manual...

1. Here's the scathing letter from the (then) head of NIMH, Robert Insell, basically telling the APA (authors of said DSM5) to get their science on....It's a pretty fantastic letter, IMO..

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/directors/thomas-insel/blog/2013/transforming-diagnosis.shtml

"The goal of this new manual, as with all previous editions, is to provide a common language for describing psychopathology. While DSM has been described as a “Bible” for the field, it is, at best, a dictionary, creating a set of labels and defining each. The strength of each of the editions of DSM has been “reliability” – each edition has ensured that clinicians use the same terms in the same ways. The weakness is its lack of validity. Unlike our definitions of ischemic heart disease, lymphoma, or AIDS, the DSM diagnoses are based on a consensus about clusters of clinical symptoms, not any objective laboratory measure. In the rest of medicine, this would be equivalent to creating diagnostic systems based on the nature of chest pain or the quality of fever. Indeed, symptom-based diagnosis, once common in other areas of medicine, has been largely replaced in the past half century as we have understood that symptoms alone rarely indicate the best choice of treatment.

Patients with mental disorders deserve better. NIMH has launched the Research Domain Criteria (RDoC) project to transform diagnosis by incorporating genetics, imaging, cognitive science, and other levels of information to lay the foundation for a new classification system. Through a series of workshops over the past 18 months, we have tried to define several major categories for a new nosology (see below). This approach began with several assumptions:
  • A diagnostic approach based on the biology as well as the symptoms must not be constrained by the current DSM categories,
  • Mental disorders are biological disorders involving brain circuits that implicate specific domains of cognition, emotion, or behavior,
  • Each level of analysis needs to be understood across a dimension of function,
  • Mapping the cognitive, circuit, and genetic aspects of mental disorders will yield new and better targets for treatment.
It became immediately clear that we cannot design a system based on biomarkers or cognitive performance because we lack the data. In this sense, RDoC is a framework for collecting the data needed for a new nosology. But it is critical to realize that we cannot succeed if we use DSM categories as the “gold standard.”2 The diagnostic system has to be based on the emerging research data, not on the current symptom-based categories. Imagine deciding that EKGs were not useful because many patients with chest pain did not have EKG changes. That is what we have been doing for decades when we reject a biomarker because it does not detect a DSM category. We need to begin collecting the genetic, imaging, physiologic, and cognitive data to see how all the data – not just the symptoms – cluster and how these clusters relate to treatment response."

Robert Insell @ Tedx


2. Robert Insell left the NIMH to join Google's life sciences division, Verily. They partnered w a biotech firm (glaxo?) and invested $750m in bio-electric medicine, which, I believe, will include vagus nerve stimulation. The reason that I think that is b/c VNS is indicated as a potential therapy in Parkinson's Disease, and Sergey Brin has the genes for Parkinson's which is why he split from Google, had a mid-life crisis, and started the life sciences division... (extremely truncated explanation!) His wife started 23andme, in part I'm guessing b/c her (then) husband & children have the potential to develop P.D.

tl;dr... I am guessing that Robert Insell is there to explore novel treatments for mental health. Vagus nerve stimulation, and the microbiome bacteria that traverse on the vagus nerve betwixt the brain & gut are a hot topic in the Bay Area (and other places..),

http://www.businessinsider.com/goog...galvani-bioelectronics-glaxosmithkline-2016-8
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
@ebethc the commentary from Insel is not new. Many who are looking at this have said similar things. Its really nice to cite though, I might use it the next time I discuss these issues.

it is common sense, so I'm not at all surprised that others are clamoring for some science! still, glad to have an advocate at a senior level, and now (hopefully) working in the private sector for a solution.

I'm really coming to the cynical conclusion that a lot of psychology is b.s. the field's aversion to science is really off-putting.... still, fascinated by the topics and, in particular, cognitive science...