whose methylation protocol to follow.

[Ambrosia_angel]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to take a little break from these products for now while I go to my Dr for advice. I'm also looking into second opinions but I'll get back to you all soon.

 

[Freddd]

Hi Fred,
thanks so much for the last reply.
Can you please provide a simple test protocol for me to try in order to see if this can work for me, or not.
I'm too brain fogged to understand all the details on other forum posts.
Thanks,
Ron

Hi Ron,

The only way I know is to try the items. If one tries the Enzymatic Therapy MeCbl, based on the questionnaire development trials I did, 75% of the people with symptoms had a response within 1 hour to a sublingual ENZY. With AdoCbl and MeCbl, the rate goes up to about 80%. With L-methylfolate added in about 90% have a single dose (of all three) and with LCF (all 4) about 95% have a response. The other 5% need a variety of other things to get it started. If a person has this startup response then it is likely that they will work. People without any of the symptoms on the lists don't have startup responses. Keeping it going can take all the various basic vitamins, minerals and fats. Good luck.

 

[Freddd]

Hi thank you for posting.
Will methylation be beneficial if I don't have a b12 deficiency? I was tested a while back though. But I've never had a b deficiency since I've been ill. Only D.

Hi Ambrosia,

Lack of MeCbl can cause partial methylation block or worse. Lack of Methylfolate can cause partial methylation block or worse. AdoCbl and LCF can cause partial ATP block which can cause partial methylation block. There can be a 4 way deadlock. It often isn't simple. One deficiency can cause a cascade of multiple problems and additional deficiencies.

 

[Radio]

- I would not mix two protocols. I would choose one or the other so you can clearly see which one is best for you.
In any case I would certainly start with dosages much lower than those and see what happens first.
- I would not use a multivitamin with folic acid in it or B12 Cyano or herbs or any kind of fat soluble synthetic vitamins (A, E)
- I would use phoschol instead of lecithin (NT factor is just a multi on a base of phospholipids most of which are phoschol, it also has folic acid in it and for that I would not use it).
- If you eat plenty of vegetables you won't need potassium, you can get at least 4-5 grams daily from a good diet.

NT Factor Smart Youthful Energy Wafers, Has No Folic Acid...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DMINPRM...=UTF8&colid=STE6K5DNMJYK&coliid=IXLOSOD0N2OM7

NT Factor Proprietary Lipid Blend 12,00mg
Phosphatidic acid (PA)
Phosphatidyl-choline (PC)
Phosphatidyl-ethanolamine (PE)
Phosphatidyl-glycerol(PG)
Phosphatidyl-inositol (PI)
Phosphatidyl-serine (PS)
Digalactosyldiacylglyceride (DGDG)
Monoglactosyldiacylglyceride (MGDG)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DMINPRM...=UTF8&colid=STE6K5DNMJYK&coliid=IXLOSOD0N2OM7

 

[Freddd]

NT Factor Smart Youthful Energy Wafers, Has No Folic Acid...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DMINPRM...=UTF8&colid=STE6K5DNMJYK&coliid=IXLOSOD0N2OM7

NT Factor Proprietary Lipid Blend 12,00mg
Phosphatidic acid (PA)
Phosphatidyl-choline (PC)
Phosphatidyl-ethanolamine (PE)
Phosphatidyl-glycerol(PG)
Phosphatidyl-inositol (PI)
Phosphatidyl-serine (PS)
Digalactosyldiacylglyceride (DGDG)
Monoglactosyldiacylglyceride (MGDG)

This looks like a very interesting supplement. What does NT stand for?

 

[SJB944]

"Nutritional Therapeutics"?

 

[Radio]

Lipid Replacement Therapy
Lipid replacement therapy (LRT) has been used along with other strategies, such as antioxidant therapy, to replace damaged or oxidized cellular lipids that accumulate during aging and in various clinical conditions. Differing from traditional lipid nutritional supplementation, LTR replacement lipids are protected from oxidation and damage during storage, ingestion and digestion. Important lipids that require constant replacement are phospholipids, glycophospholipids and other lipids that make up cellular and organelle membranes, especially mitochondrial membranes. Decreased mitochondrial function and loss in the efficiency of the electron transport chain are related to aging and fatigue. Oxidative damage to mitochondria, mainly from Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS), results in peroxidation of cellular and mitochondrial lipids, proteins and DNA, but it is ROS damage to mitochondrial membrane lipids that may cause the most rapid loss of mitochondrial function. LRT along with antioxidants can circumvent ROS membrane damage and replace and restore mitochondrial and other cellular membrane functions via delivery of replacement lipids in their unoxidized, undamaged states. Recent clinical trials have shown the benefit of LRT plus antioxidants in restoring mitochondrial electron transport function and reducing fatigue. Look for the NT factor with phospholipids (only) with "NO" add supplements. It has to be just plan NT Factor.

Phospholipids Source
Egg yolks, liver, wheat germ and peanuts contain the phospholipid lecithin. Your body can only synthesize lecithin if you have sufficient choline in your diet, however. You can also find phospholipids in soy, milk and lightly cooked meats. Most fats, oils and fat-containing foods contain phospholipids as well.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs.27280/

 

[xrunner]

NT Factor Smart Youthful Energy Wafers, Has No Folic Acid...
You're right, it was sometime ago I bought it and it was actually another product of Nutritional Therapeutics which is NT Factor but also incorporating vitamins and minerals which had folic acid in it. This one is just the basic phospholipids. Sorry for the mix-up

By the way, in addition to this, I also did the iv lipid replacement therapy (Dr P Kane protocol) and it didn't do any of the beautiful things it's supposed to do. However, my main problem was Lyme and metals so that could explain why it wouldn't resolve my mitochondrial abnormalities and permanent low atp status.

 

[Freddd]

By the way, in addition to this, I also did the iv lipid replacement therapy (Dr P Kane protocol) and it didn't do any of the beautiful things it's supposed to do. However, my main problem was Lyme and metals so that could explain why it wouldn't resolve my mitochondrial abnormalities and permanent low atp status.

Hi Xrunner,

In the absence of clearing up all four of the deadlock quartet I don't see how the ATP could be increased though other things may help after the quartet has done what it can

 

[Radio]

In the absence of clearing up all four of the deadlock quartet I don't see how the ATP could be increased though other things may help after the quartet has done what it can

I agree, Full recovery depends on getting the right methylation/mineral support in place, in combination with the right anti-inflammatory diet. (Just Eat Real Food).

 

[u&iraok]

Hi Ambrosia,

The Jarrow MeCbl likely won't work any better than the HyCbl. The ONLY one I can suggest with confidence is the Enzymatic Therapy.

Freddd no longer recommends the Jarrow Methyl B-12 5000 mcg?

 

[matt3n]

Freddd no longer recommends the Jarrow Methyl B-12 5000 mcg?

Late reply, but no. Apparently it stopped working for many people for some unknown reason. I still have some and use it occasionally. It does seem to give me the muscle twitches that mean I need potassium, which I interpret to mean it's increasing my methylation (or at least doing something...) but I'm not sensitive enough to changes in supplements to know for sure if it's as good as the Enzymatic Therapy so I normally use that one to be "safe", since I assume a less-effective B-12 can crowd out a more effective one.

I'm just guessing but I think Freddd would advise to follow his "protocol" as closely as possible to start, but then experiment to see if other brands or combinations of them work better for you.

I'm still trying to get there (a pure version of the protocol - there are about 30 elements, not counting getting rid of anything that might interfere with it...) myself. I take a lot of drugs and supplements that might (not sure if anybody knows for sure) interfere with the active B-12 protocol. I've been trying to wean off of them, with some success, but for me it's going to be a long road because I had really been doing the "throw everything at it" approach (4 antidepressants at once for depression and fibromyalgia, Klonopin for sleep, antivirals, immune-boosters, herbs for sleep and for the liver...you name it! I have lots of symptoms but I don't seem to be especially medication-sensitive, lol).

On the other hand, it's nice to have some extra motivation to try to get off of some of those expensive things. I've recently almost completely gotten off of tramadol and hydrocodone. Of course I still feel better if I take one, but I realized if I take them every day I'm probably no better off than if I never them... So now I save money, and they work better if I really do need them to get out of the house.

Went off on a little tangent there but it's nice to share. Helps me put my thoughts together.