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Who first called it a 'phobia of movement'?

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by JaimeS, Aug 13, 2016.

  1. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    This is a phrase I've kept chasing around and can't find its root. Does anybody know?

    TY as always, community mine. :redface:
     
  2. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Building a New Home

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  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I was also going to say it has to be someone in the medical field in Great Britain. :lol:
     
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  4. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Beginning to think it was a humorous strawman by a patient! ;)
     
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  5. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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  6. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    I'm sure this is not what your looking for, but, by Googling, I found the phrase "phobia of movement" in a 1916 psychology book written by Sándor Ferenczi, a colleague of Freud. It has nothing to do with exercise phobia.

    The context is all very Freudian, but it seems to be discussing the repression of aggression leading to a "phobia of movement."
    I should point out that, in the same paragraph, Ferenczi boldy connects a low aptitude for geometry with the repression of over-exuberant fantasies about incest. :wide-eyed:
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
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  7. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Psychoanalysis starts making sense when you know that Freud was severely abusing cocaine while writing many of his texts on the topic. To the point he required nose surgery.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/opinions/outlook/whats-in-a-name/freud.html

    Anyway, the idea of CFS being some sort of exercise phobia has nothing to do with psychoanalysis. It's related to the fear avoidance model where the treatment is Graded Exposure Therapy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
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  8. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    @JaimeS I would say this paper from 1990 could be it. All later work on movement phobia refers to it. I couldn't find the full paper though.
    A quote from a paper that refers to the Kori paper:
    A more recent paper with some more info on Kori:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3154068/
     
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  9. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Let me say that those who think such things must, by their kind of reasoning, not mine, have a phobia of science, evidence and reason.
     
  11. Woolie

    Woolie Gone now, hope to see you all again soon somewhere

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    I'd only just noticed that - "fear avoidance beliefs". Sort of a hybrid between a behaviorual phenomenon (the avoidance of things that we fear part) and a cognitive one (the belief part). Clearly, our problem isn't just that we avoid behaviours or situations that we fear. No, its much more meta. Our problem is that we also believe that we should avoid these behaviours. Presumably it would not be so dysfucntional just to do the avoiding without giving it much thought. We make it so much worse by believing in the avoiding that we do.

    Have I got that right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
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  12. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    I suspect a desirable element of these ideas is that they are vague. They don't commit to one clear interpretation. The concept is supposed to be flexible. In part because that makes it harder to criticize, and allows them to claim that critics just misunderstand it. In part because like the language of fortune telling, it's supposed to appear profound while actualy being so shallow to be applicable to wide variety of people and situations. There's even a specific term for this kind of language but it's rarely used (no it's not weasel words).

    Edit: and finally, in part also because they're making shit up as they go, driven more by belief that they already "know" the answer and just need to fill in the details.
     
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  13. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    So reading that, what I read is, "people who seem overly controlled and seem to have strong disapproval for expression through the body may be holding in bodily aggression themselves."

    I mean, okay.

    And then the incest because to Freud, every action, thought and feeling is sex always, usually culturally-illicit sex. :rolleyes:

    -J
     
  14. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Effi, you are a love. This is basically what I was looking for. I had a 'friend' search sci-hub, and it appears that the original 1990 paper is irretrievable.

    I recognize the authors there. The abstract is dazzling in its illogic. Here are the points they make in order.

    • PW CFS and FM have significant pain and worsening of symptoms on or after exertion.
    • This causes an understandable wariness of exertion.
    • Despite that, we have pathologized this 'understandable' behavior and invented a questionnaire to measure it.
    • Our study showed that fear of movement correlates to severity of symptoms: the worse your symptoms, the more you fear exertion
    • Treatment with GET requires identifying these patients who are worst off and tailoring GET and CBT programs for them.
    I think you leaned all your weight on the trick step of exercise being the answer to life, the universe, and everything, and fell straight through...

    Did you hear that? What on EARTH is wrong with their logic circuits?

    One must assume that the whole 'this is understandable' nonsense is to appease patients or soft-hearted clinicians; no one could really understand the pain and relapse created by exercise and push it, anyway. There is no long-term gain (as demonstrated in PACE) and there is often long-term loss. What is this worship of exercise all about? They admit it causes patients to worsen in the bloody abstract, but apparently it's worth it to crash on day 2 so long as exercise is achieved on day 1.

    Sorry, but my brain just can't handle the contradictions here.

    I know the answer is money. No one has to inform me. Sorry. :oops:

    All these researchers appear totally unfamiliar with the 24 hour lag many patients experience between exercise and problems. I guess it takes that long for the belief we should have been injured to 'fully sink in'.

    I have actually really wondered about that one. I think that even with the 'flexibility' @A.B. mentions, that one isn't explicable within the BS...ahem... BPS model. Patients still try so hard to move/exercise if it's at all within their capabilities, and often suffer about 24 hours later.

    -J
     
  15. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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  16. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    I experienced kinesiophobia when I hurt my back, it took me quite a while to start moving again. If you think it is going to hurt, you don't want to move. I think many of us have a fear of overexertion, only this fear is actually well founded.
     
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  17. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    These papers remind me of the Olympics - dizzying feats of irrationality, effortlessly scaling the heights of absurdity, with unbelievable twists and turns and backflips and somehow they land on their feet! - (with apologies to the real athletes! :rolleyes:)
     
  18. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    If you showed these guys a malnourished child, would they offer the child CBT to help her cope with her hunger beliefs?
     
  19. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Building a New Home

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    Yep, they are trying to compare ME to a 'fear of heights' or a 'fear of flying' psychological illness. And we somehow use our minds to create our real physical symptoms. But they never fully explain how ME people magically create these physical symptoms "on demand". They act as though its a switch we can turn off and on when we desire. As far I as know we have a sympathetic and parasympathic systems. They are decribing something that does't exist, a new voodoo sympathetic system.

    For me, it's not so much that we have people making up study outcomes to support the theories of the organizations who are paying for the study. This is a given, and nothing new. It's the people that read the voodoo studies that actually believe them, that concerns me even more.
     
  20. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    How we delay our reaction through a psychological mechanism is the question. But if asked, I'm sure the answer would be, "there is a lot about the mind-body connection we do not understand..."

    Sure.

    -J
     

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