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Whey protein powder to address ME/CFS metabolic issues being identified by researchers - which one?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Sasha, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    On the thread about how recent metabolic research indicates impaired pyruvate dehydrogenase function in ME/CFS, new forum member @Murph kindly told us:

    And, after we assured him we didn't think he was a shill and asking him to give us the brand of the whey powder, he said:

    Here's info about the contents of this product from the manufacturer's website:

    https://www.dymatize.com/iso100

    ... but it doesn't seem to be broken down much.

    I'm assuming that the flavourings in this particular product might well trigger migraines for me (I get migraines triggered by tyramine and, I think, strong flavours) so was hoping to find a flavouring-free version with a similar profile.

    But I'm not sure what the profile is! @Murph, if you don't mind me piling on yet another question, could you tell me where you've seen the breakdown of amino acid ingredients? I'm wondering if all whey protein powders have the same profile.

    Is anyone aware of a comparable one that isn't flavoured?
     
    Jo Best, L'engle, MastBCrazy and 4 others like this.
  2. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Note hixxy's experience, also mentioned in that thread:

    I'm wondering if this is a common experience. I think we're all familiar with the ME/CFS thing of people starting a supplement, doing well for a while, and then losing the effect, and then sometimes finding they get worse when they come off it.
     
  3. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Unflavoured whey protein powder does indeed exist (I should have googled before I asked that question, not after!) and apparently tastes horrible to some but not to others:

    https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2468706

    But I'd still like to know if the amino acid profile is similar to the one that @Murph's doctor recommended to him.

    Is anyone managing to find a breakdown of the ingredients?
     
    AndyPR likes this.
  4. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Aha! Here are the ingredients (why don't I google more first? :bang-head:):

    http://www.iherb.com/Dymatize-Nutri...Isolate-Gourmet-Chocolate-3-lbs-1-342-g/54175

    Typical Amino Acid Profile Per Serving†
    Essential

    Leucine (BCAA) 2,767 mg
    Isoleucine (BCAA) 1,418 mg
    Valine (BCAA) 1,444 mg
    Histidine 440 mg
    Lysine 2,346 mg
    Methionine 566 mg
    Phenylalanine 774 mg
    Threonine 1,714 mg
    Tryptophan 413 mg

    Conditionally Essential
    Glutamine & Glutamic Acid 4,422 mg
    Arginine 688 mg
    Cysteine 522 mg
    Glycine 455 mg
    Tyrosine 691 mg

    Non-Essential
    Aspartic Acid 2,601 mg
    Alanine 1,235 mg
    Proline 1,445 mg
    Serine 1,256 mg

    Lysine and leucine are the ones that @Murph noted as being discussed as being of interest.
     
    Chezboo, MastBCrazy, merylg and 3 others like this.
  5. TreePerson

    TreePerson

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    Hi Everyone
    I am interested in this thread because I recently tried whey protein to see if it would help. I used 30 g Pulsin whey isolate over the course of one day. I experienced a possible increase in energy but also some extreme night sweating. I was unsure if this was good or bad. But was advised by @gregh286 on another thread that probably bad and some kind of allergic immune response. I had hoped it was a detox. I have since tried rice protein also Pulsin isolate at a lower amount of about 15 g a day. No night sweats but I'm pretty sure it's giving me nerve pain down the backs of my legs and a bit in the back of my head. I don't know why that would be. But it has crossed my mind that this type of protein might be more accessible to the body i.e. need less digestion so that even small amounts are making available quite a lot more protein.
    So I'm very interested to know if anyone experiences these kind of reactions.
     
    merylg and Sasha like this.
  6. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks for telling us what happened, @TreePerson! Yikes.

    I'm currently looking at Pulsin' and comparing its amino acid profile to the one @Murph was recommended.

    One good thing I can see already about the Pulsin' isolate product is that you can buy a small amount at first, rather than a whacking great (expensive) tub, so if it doesn't agree with you, at least it's not £30 down the pan.
     
    merylg and TreePerson like this.
  7. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    A little tip for the many whom are intolerant to dairy products; try a beef protein isolate powder. Most have a good amino acid profile, Pre-ME a beef product called carnivor gave me better musclegains than whey protein (but it does contain a lot of crap ingredients like artificial coloring).
    There are more natural beef powders on the market.

    Then there's something called beef collagen hydrolysate, it's very easily absorbed and contains all the amino acids.
    http://www.iherb.com/Great-Lakes-Ge...te-Collagen-Joint-Care-Beef-16-oz-454-g/52774
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  8. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes trishrhymes.wordpress.com

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    I'm having a go with soya protein, just with the intention of bumping up my protein intake. I've been using soya milk, tofu etc for years, so assumed it would be OK. I've been off dairy foods for years because of gut issues. (and gluten grains).

    I had a look at the amino acid profile on the soya protein packet there is 6.8g Leucine and 5.4g Lysine per 100g. Less than in whey powder which according to Sasha's figures above is more like 9g and 7g per 100g.

    Any comments?
     
    Joh and TreePerson like this.
  9. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Here's my comparison of the product that Murphy is using with Pulsin's isolate, and their amino acid profile is very similar indeed:

    Dymatize vs Pulsin amino acids.png
    In the UK (it's a UK product, I think), it's available in 250g, 1 kg and 5 kg packs. For those who want to start off with the smaller pack size, it's only £7.50 on UK Amazon with free delivery (if you include it in a larger order of at least £20 of Amazon goods).

    It says it's low in lactose, because of the filtration process.

    Here's some quite informative blurb, from the Amazon page:

     
    FTY likes this.
  10. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I've got some of that Great Lakes stuff sitting in my cupboard (I think I got it to see if it helped with some vague gut-healing thing and then forgot why I'd bought it!). Its amino acid profile is quite different to the product that Murphy is using - it's pretty low in leucine and lysine, for instance (which I gather are key).
     
    Theodore likes this.
  11. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I have some issues with dairy so just did a bit of googling on this. I stumbled across a bodybuilders' message board where someone suspected that the beef protein powder he was using was basically gelatin/collagen, and so he emailed the manufacturer. Here's what they said (my bolding):

    I'm going to try the Pulsin' stuff first and see if I can get away with it, milk-wise and migraine-wise.
     
    TreePerson likes this.
  12. NexusOwl

    NexusOwl Spanish advocate

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    I can't have beef, dairy or soy, so I'm using hemp protein. It seems to help. At least it really feels good, one of the foods that make me feel the best allong with some mushrooms and artichoke. In fact I thing this is the best "food-medicine" I've had ever.
     
  13. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    That's interesting - it's also low in leucine and lysine, apparently:

    https://examine.com/supplements/hemp-protein/
     
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  14. NexusOwl

    NexusOwl Spanish advocate

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    I've sometimes consumed it allong with quinoa. Maybe it makes a difference.
     
    Sasha likes this.
  15. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I like how the first part of this thread is just @Sasha talking to herself :p
     
  16. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Quite a few of my threads are exactly like that! :whistle:
     
    sue la-la, Jo Best, justy and 8 others like this.
  17. PatJ

    PatJ Senior Member

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    Sunwarrior is a very good plant based protein powder. It comes in vanilla, chocolate, and natural. The "natural" flavors don't contain anything other than pure protein powder (no sweeteners, no gums, etc.)

    "Sunwarrior classic protein raw vegan superfood - natural flavor" is plain non-gmo brown rice protein (sprouted).

    A 21g serving contains 17g protein.
    100g contains 81g protein, 4.1g lysine, 7.3g leucine (serving size times 4.76)
    Vitacost price = $0.95 per serving based on the 2.2 pound size.

    "Sunwarrior classic plus protein - natural flavor" contains a mix of Organic Pea, Organic Brown rice, Organic Quinoa, Organic Chia Seed, Organic Amaranth.

    A 25g serving contains 20g protein
    100g contains 80g protein, 4.3g lysine, 7.2g leucine (serving size times 4).
    Vitacost price = $1.12 per serving based on the 2.5 pound size.

    This url allows you to compare the two products on Vitacost, including a comparison of amino acid content (per serving, note that the serving sizes are different 21g vs 25g).

    When comparing products watch out for differences in serving size and flavor additives. Sweeteners and other additives lower the protein and natural amino acid content per serving.

    I've got both on order so can't say anything about flavor yet. Some reviews say the natural flavors are disgusting, others say they have a neutral flavor, and some say pleasant.

    For those in the US, Sunwarrior has samples available if you contact them (I'm in Canada so couldn't get any samples.) When looking at the price ($45 for 2.5 lbs of the classic plus from Vitacost) it's actually a good price compared with other protein powders (Swanson has the same pricing). I recently compared quite a few plant based protein powders and found that Sunwarrior is well priced for the quality and per serving cost. It's also very rare to have a natural flavor that doesn't contain any additives.
     
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  18. Ysabelle-S

    Ysabelle-S Senior Member

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    I ordered a small pack in the UK and will see how I get on with this.
     
    Sasha likes this.
  19. Molly98

    Molly98 Senior Member

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    I have been using sun warrior protein powder daily for a couple of years. I prefer the chocolate version. It doesn't taste fantastic but it is fine- I usually have it blended with cocomilk and a banana.
    I don't know if it makes a difference or not but perhaps I would be worse if I didn't have it. I find it a useful way to get protein in me because I can struggle with meat and fish and some times loose my appetite completely
    so at least I know I am getting something good in to me. I also use Amazing Grass, protein powder and amazing meal replacement, it is really useful for the times I am unable to prepare my own food and husband is at work. I get both from Amazon.
    I think I may try the Pulsin whey powder to see how that compares.
    I have a box of Pulsin protein bars from Amazon monthly, they are the best protein bars, totally yum - well the chocolate orange ones really taste of chocolate orange and the mint choc chip are delicious also. No baddies in them, no sugar and really really useful if you have hypoglycemic symptoms and need something quick and easy and can not get to the kitchen. Also great to take out in your bag when you need something urgently.
     
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  20. deleder2k

    deleder2k Senior Member

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    Has anyone searched the web for the lowest prices of Dymatize Nutrition ISO-100 that ships to EU? I think 1.6 lbs should be enough to try it out.


    https://no.bodybuilding.com/store/dymatize/iso-100.html wasn't very expensive, but 10 GBP shipping to Norway. Makes the total just above the VAT free amount of 350 NOK (33 GBP)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016

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