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Where can I buy Glutathione injections and is Whey Protein worth a try?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by snowathlete, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    As part of my treatment plan i am going on the offensive against Herpes Viruses. I have heard (from a post from Rich) that Glutathione attacks EBV. I dont know much about this yet, but i have read that oral supplementation doesnt absorb very well. So you need injections. Where can i buy these and do you just self administor at home? Im in the UK by the way.

    In reading about this stuff, i found this old transcription of a talk by Cheney, which talks a bit about Glutathione and Whey Protein.
    http://www.betterhealthinternational.com/Cheney_glutathione.asp

    Anyone know if anything developed out of this, and whether Whey Protein is worth taking?

    Thanks
    Joel
     
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Joel.

    Dr. Cheney has given up on boosting glutathione.

    I found (in late 2004) that in order to get glutathione up on a permanent basis, one has to lift the upstream partial methylation cycle block. That's the basis for the methylation protocols that people are using now. If you fix the methylation, glutathione comes up on its own, without supplementing it or the amino acids that make it.

    If you need a good source of protein, and you don't have an intolerance to milk products, then the nondenatured whey protein supplements are good choices.

    Glutathione IVs give a benefit that lasts only for a day or so.

    Another thing you could consider to suppress EBV is to raise the ratio of lysine to arginine in your diet, such as by taking lysine as a supplement. It's pretty inexpensive.
    Some people take 3 grams per day or so. Going too high is not good for the kidneys. Avoiding seeds, nuts, and whole grains, as well as chocolate, will lower the arginine intake. Animal-based proteins have quite a bit of lysine.

    Also, a few years ago the Life Extension magazine carried an article claiming that cimetidine (Tagamet) will help the immune system to attack EBV. Tagamet is now sold over-the-counter. It is a histamine H2 receptor blocker, and it is used to shut down stomach acid production. Most PWCs are already low in stomach acid, so that part is not so good. Maybe cimetidine could be taken at bedtime, and then with meals, either the Allergy Research Group's dilute hydrochloric acid or betaine-HCl could be taken to bring up the stomach acid. I don't know of any PWMEs who have tried this.

    I recommend checking with your physician before you decide to try these things.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  3. endomeister

    endomeister

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    Undenatured whey protein helps raise glutathione levels - but so do many other good protein sources like eggs (if you tolerate them). I like to eat protein sources throughout the day as this seems to help my energy levels.

    I agree with Rich about identifying and correcting methylation issues. This can be very important for chronically ill patients.

    IV glutathione is a poor substitute for a diet rich in nutrients and correction of methylation problems. I would not waste my time with it. What you need is long term elevation of glutathione levels.

    As Rich suggested, lysine might help with EBV but is much more effective against the alpha herpes viruses (such as HSV1/2) which can also contribute to fatigue, etc.

    Many people benefit from supplemental B6 (or P5P) as it can help raise glutathione levels.

    Zinc supplementation can help with EBV, also. Especially, if you have any degree of pyrrole disorder which impairs immunity. This also relates to methylation.

    At the top of the list is eating a diet rich in greens and vegetables - no supplement can substitute for this.

    You can begin immediately by:

    1. Consuming undenatured whey once or twice daily in between meals;
    2. Improving diet with more greens and vegetables;
    3. Trying supplemental B6 or P5P;

    Google and research methylation (under- and over-) and pyrrole disorder to see if these subjects are relevant to you. These are very common conditions, esp. in the chronically ill.
     
  4. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Thanks for the replies. Very helpful.

    Ive started cutting out the Arginine in my diet already. But I will get some Lysine supplements as you suggest - i want to avoid any damage to the kidneys...what would be a small but affective amount? 1gram?

    Diet wise I can eat pretty much anything without problems. Carbs make me feel tired but thats pretty normal I think. My stomach acid seems pretty normal i think, though last night i did get bad acid as a result of starting on the supplements im taking.

    I need to take a proper look at this Methylation protocol. THere is so much info on this site though, that its hard to know where to start. I expect i am already taking some vits and mins that are part of it, but prob. not everything i need to.

    Should i get a glutathione test first to see if i am even low in it?
     
  5. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I had quite a postive response almost right away (well within first couple of weeks, it may have been in days, I cant remember now) of having undenatured whey daily... I felt weller then I usually do (realised how unwell I'd actually felt previously) and had more energy (its the only thing Ive found which boosted my energy levels).

    From that I know without being tested that I certainly have glutathione deficiency. (I thou had to stop the whey as I developed bowel intollerance to it but it certainly was making a big difference to me generally when I was on it)
     
  6. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, snowathlete.

    I responded to your PM about testing.

    According to the literature, 10 grams per day of lysine has been tolerated in the short term, but it isn't known whether that dosage will cause problems if continued over the long term. 3 grams per day is what a lot of people use. My friend the late Dr. David Gregg recommended 10 grams per day while symptoms lasted for a variety of disorders that he believed are associated with herpes viral infections, including rheumatoid arthritis. When the symptoms stopped, he recommended dropping the lysine dosage until the symptoms returned. This was not a cure, but he was able to help some people pretty remarkably who were suffering from serious R.A.

    Here's a do-it-yourself test for stomach acid: On an empty stomach, such as first thing in the morning, drink an 8-ounce glass of water into which you have mixed one-quarter teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Time how long it takes you to burp. If you have enough stomach acid, you should burp within two minutes. If you don't burp within two minutes, especially if you don't burp at all, which many people with ME/CFS report, then you are low in stomach acid. Low stomach acid is actually the cause of many (if not most) cases of acid reflux (heartburn), rather than high stomach acid. Treatment with proton pump inhibitors is promoted by the drug companies for acid reflux, but it is best to run a test first to see if low stomach acid is actually the problem, rather than high stomach acid.

    I believe that the cause of low stomach acid in ME/CFS is glutathione depletion in the mitochondria of the parietal cells in the stomach, which normally pump hydrogen ions (which form the hydrochloric acid) into the stomach. The low glutathione causes oxidative stress and lowers the ATP output of the mitochondria, which is needed to power the hydrogen ion (proton) pumps. These require a lot of energy to work against the large gradient in hydrogen ions between the parietal cells and the lumen of the stomach.

    If you haven't viewed the video of my seminar in Sweden, I recommend that you check it out. It gives a step-by-step presentation of the whole methylation--glutathione thing. It can be found here:

    http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/$%7Bweburl%7D

    Rich
     
  7. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Here's a do-it-yourself test for stomach acid: On an empty stomach, such as first thing in the morning, drink an 8-ounce glass of water into which you have mixed one-quarter teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Time how long it takes you to burp. If you have enough stomach acid, you should burp within two minutes. If you don't burp within two minutes, especially if you don't burp at all, which many people with ME/CFS report, then you are low in stomach acid. Low stomach acid is actually the cause of many (if not most) cases of acid reflux (heartburn), rather than high stomach acid. Treatment with proton pump inhibitors is promoted by the drug companies for acid reflux, but it is best to run a test first to see if low stomach acid is actually the problem, rather than high stomach acid.

    Thanks Rich, i will try to remember to try this tomorrow and let you know what happens. I will also check out yout video.
     
  8. endomeister

    endomeister

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    I have taken up to 6,200 mg of l-lysine daily in 3-4 divided doses, long term, with no ill effects. I take it with vitamin C as I think it is more effective together. I am not sure there is a benefit to higher daily doses but it is clear to me that the typical 500-1000 mg daily doses which are so common are diminutive and very often ineffective. I have not had to modify my diet except to avoid garlic and other foods which stimulate tnf-alpha production, and peanuts/other nuts which are high in arginine and copper.

    It is most effective against the alpha subfamily of herpes viruses. The reason is they are the fastest herpes replicators and lysine slows this process down quite a bit.

    Here is a chart I prepared over a year ago during a research project I was involved in: http://is.gd/hjkfkj

    The lysine in fact almost completely arrested my profound fatigue and symptoms related to my HSV1 infection. HSV1 was the virus responsible for my condition, and can cause a number of multi-system problems.

    I am unsure how effective lysine is against non alpha herpes viruses but know that it can be very helpful in reducing inflammation and this in itself is helpful in maintaining healthy glutathione levels.
     
  9. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Lysine is apparently in coconut oil, which i order some of about a week ago. I found out about it when searching the net for MONO treatments. Its used alot by people with mono with good results, and there has been some science, which shows that it kills EBV. Hopefully it will arrive soon.

    Mind you, i wonder how much Arginine is in coconut oil - if alot then it might be better to take the supplement instead to avoid this. Does anyone know?
     
  10. endomeister

    endomeister

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    When I tried coconut oil, it made me ill by stimulating inflammation; probably due to it's arginine. However, my condition is HSV related and EBV infections may not respond in the same way. I prefer pure free form lysine.

    You've been given some good suggestions here. Don't forget that a healthy diet focusing on the right foods is very important.
     
  11. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

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    My personal experience with glutathione injections confirms what others have said, in essence wasn't worth it.
    I got better results with the methylation protocol.

    Regarding EBV, quite interesting google: curcumin and EBV.
     
  12. endomeister

    endomeister

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    As far as raising glutathione, I get good results from the following daily combination: vitamin C, P5P, lysine, curcumin, whey protein, and selenium supplementation.

    I agree that curcumin / turmeric is a fantastic supplement for many people with chronic viral infections, and is highly recommended - it not only is antiviral but helps to lower tnf-alpha and also helps insofar as maintaining healthy levels of glutathione.

    This is the specific supplement that I use with great benefit:

    http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Super-BIO-Curcumin-400-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/15211?at=0

    I take just one per day with food, and think that is all that is needed for most people. I take two days off per week, and one week off every two months.
     
  13. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Why is that?

    also, what does the selenium do? Im taking (or going to be taking) all the other stuff you list.
     
  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Another way to raise glutathione is by supplementing cysteine. Cysteine is the component of glutathione that is usually lower than the other components. I've recently started taking 1800mg/day of cysteine in the form of Jarrow's slow-release N-acetylcysteine, and it seems to be helping quite a lot so far.
     
  15. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi, my glutathione levels are low and i have also found that Vit C and Selenium are really helpful for feeling a bit better -although im sorry i cant say in what way specifically, i just know i feel better taking them. I think i read somewhere that selenium is important for making Glutathione -cant remember exactly ill try and find out.
    All the best , Justy.
     
  16. endomeister

    endomeister

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    I take breaks from supplements because the body 'gets used to them'...and sometimes the body also resists absorbing or assimilating the nutrient in question if given at high dose for a prolonged period. I believe curcumin is this way. It also a good idea to let the cells have a break and go thru it's normal cycles and 'take out the trash' and build up of any compounds.

    Regarding the selenium, I believe it inhibits tnf alpha / inflammation and this results in less glutathione depletion; but also the selenium may directly help in generating glutathione as well.
     
  17. endomeister

    endomeister

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    NAC can help generate glutathione but it generated too much inflammation in my case - probably because of it's tendency to generate NO (nitric oxide), I speculate, which my body produces too much of (as many CFS and B.D. patients do).

    However, with my whey protein shake, I throw in a little glycine (because the protein /amino profile is low in this) and selenium and get a good boost of energy from this.
     
  18. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    My understanding is that selenium is necessary to manufacture the antioxidant enzyme Glutathione Peroxidase. For this you need glutathione AND selenium.
    If I remember correctly selenium may be helpful to the immune system in fighting these viruses.

    There are a number of remedies/herbs that seem to inhibit the EBV and other herpes viruses. However, most studies are based on in-vitro observations which it doesn't necessarily mean they work in-vivo. Resveratrol is certainly worth a look as it seems able to stop EBV viral replication. It seems to work like antiviral.
    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-....,cf.osb&fp=bd3772843da9910d&biw=1440&bih=722

    I have used it, it's great but I don't know to what extent will take EBV out in practice.
    I learnt about it from Stephen Buhner the herbalist (he gave me some helpful advice me in the past), heres' some posts about his views on viruses incl. EBV
    http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/category/co-infections/viral/


    All the best.
     
  19. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    xrunner, that is really handy. I have found several potential treatments but not this one. My plan is to try several and go through them until one (or a bunch of them) work. I am currently taking, amoung other things, coconut oil - sounds nice doesnt it, but its not. Its rank, like lard really, but i forced myself to drink a large batch of it this evening. Im starting to get a herx, which is probably a good sign.

    Thank you also for the other link, i will look at that too!

    Best
    Joel
     
  20. endomeister

    endomeister

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    I'd be careful. It probably is not a herx reaction from the coconut oil but rather an inflammatory response (which can lower glutathione levels). I had an inflammatory response to coconut oil (and garlic). There are many herbs and foods which can make things worse.
     

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