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What's your CD4/CD8 ratio?

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by SOC, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Well, that was shortly after using ABX which I think drops WBC slightly.

    My WBC is usually 3.0-3.4 range, which is right around bottom normal. It was 3.5 before my big crash.

    I've read cortisol can lower WBC.
     
  2. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    @Mij , Do you suffer from an auto-immune disease or EBV?
    My girlfriend has SLE + vasculitis and her CD4/CD8 numbers are the same as yours. Her auto-immune illness is very likely triggered by EBV.
     
  3. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    I have had reactivation of EBV and HHV6 when I took immune modulators but I don't know if that was the initial trigger of my illness. I don't know if I have an auto-immune illness.
     
  4. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    @halcyon I just discovered these test results from Dr. Chia from a year and a half ago. My CD was elevated and my ratio was low out of range like yours. Most people here seem to have an elevated ratio. Do you know what low indicates?
     
  5. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    I believe low ratio happens when either CD4 is low or CD8 is high, or both. For me, my CD4 was good but my CD8 was elevated a bit. CD8+ T lymphocytes include cytotoxic T cells which are known to go after virally infected cells. A low ratio seems to generally be associated with chronic viral infection.

    Source
     
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  6. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Thank you, @halcyon . Chronic viral infection sounds about right. I'm high out-of-range for so many things.
     
  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @heapsreal or anyone..

    can you please help me understand the cd4/cd8 ratio (HIGH)? also, is this a respected test? there are so many that are dismissed.

    other questions and related tests below... I started high dose Olive Leaf this year and it was a big help, and now has leveled off.. I'm guessing these results (from last year) were from EBV out of control... hopefully, the OLE will beat it back into submission..

    CD4/CD8 HIGH RATIO = 3.8 HIGH
    t & b lymphocyte Nk cell results are attached.
    • mine is 3.8, which is just out of range for this lab's guidelines, but what's the "optimal" target?
    • how do you get it to normal?

    ALSO, NK CELL COUNT = 2 LU30 .. LOW
    • how do you interpret this info w the cd4/cd8 ratio?

    EBV titers:
    1. EA-IgG = 2.98 HIGH
      • < or = 0.9 is negative"
    2. EBNA-IgG = > 5.00 HIGH
      • < or = 0.9 is negative
    3. VCA-IgG = > 5.00 HIGH
      • < or = 0.9 is negative
    4. VCA-IgM = < or = 0.9
      • < or = 0.9 is negative
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  8. Hotch

    Hotch Hotch

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    Sydney nosw Australia
    Hi SOC,

    I found the Phoenix Rising site a couple of months ago. I have found it fabulous and particularly love your posts! You seem to understand a lot about this terrible illness. I have had CFS for 31 years. I live in Australia where our testing and treatments seem to be behind. Hence, we do not get titres for viruses or bacterias, we just get a negative or positive. This makes it difficult to know which virus/bacteria to treat. I just started Valtrex a couple of days ago for EBV. If I remember correctly, in a post I was reading a few weeks ago (it was prob an old post) you offered to send someone your history of treatments etc. if you have that handy and are willing, I would love a copy too. I am kind of flying blind. I hope you don't mind me messaging you on an old post but from what I remember you have had some success. I know everyone is different, but since your CD4/CD8 are similar to mine I thought something you have found to help could be a good place for me to start.


    My ratio is 6.6. Ref range (1.20 - 3.00)
    CD4. Cell count 66% Absolute count x109/L 0.79. Ref (0.60 - 1.70)
    CD8. Cell count 10%. Absolute count. 0.12. Ref (0.40 - 1.00)

    I know this post is from 2013 but I have only just found this thread. I was wondering if your levels have improved and if so what do you attribute it to?

    Thank you for your time and I hope you are doing really well! Cheers, HOTCH



     
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  9. Emootje

    Emootje Senior Member

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    The Netherlands
    CD4 36% (normal 33-61)
    CD8 48% (normal 23-41)
    CD4/CD8 0.75 (normal 0.9-2.6)
     
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  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I wouldnt worry too much about the ratio. High cd8 may indicate active ebv or another herpes virus like cmv etc.

    From what i could see your nk numbers were ok but if low then just more easily open to viral infections. Nk function test would be more accurate as numbers can be ok but the buggers dont work.

    My general rule is if cd lymphocytes are high or low your fighting something and if low then immune system is tiring?? Do u have any neutrophil results as these can also indicate a current infection if high or low??

    Antivirals helped bring my cd8 count down to normal, so for me this indicate that one of the heroes viruses were active, which one i dont know but more than likely cmv or vzv.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  11. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    I have EBV, but test negative for CMV and HHV-6... I was taking OLE and really doing well on it, but lately I haven't been feeling great...

    1. What's an NK function test? what is tested and what do the results look like? I'm not sure that I've had this test..

    2. My CD4 is high normal, and CD8 is low normal : what purpose does CD4 serve vs CD8? Are CD lymphocytes the same as CD8 ... see below

    3. re "tired immune system" .. Do you think that your immune system can get so tired that it can't produce antibodies? like for hashimoto's?


    upload_2016-9-16_22-58-6.png
     
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  12. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    I found this interesting:

    The CD4/CD8 T-cell ratio in humans is genetically controlled [62], with at least some of the responsible genes being located in the HLA complex [63]. The CD8+ T cell deficiency and increased CD4/CD8 ratio in autoimmune diseases are also present in healthy blood relatives of patients with these diseases, indicating that the abnormalities are genetically determined and not secondary for the disease process. Interestingly, females generally have lower proportions and numbers of CD8+ T cells, higher proportions and numbers of CD4+ T cells, and higher CD4/CD8 ratios than males [62, 6670]. These gender differences appear to be hormonally mediated because oestrogen deficiency substantially increases the proportion and number of CD8+ T cells and decreases the CD4/CD8 ratio, with the ratio directly correlating with the serum oestradiol level [71]. Lower numbers of CD8+ T cells in females might contribute to the higher frequency of autoimmune diseases in females than males. Because the number of CD8+ T cells normally declines with increasing age, particularly through childhood [72], but also through adulthood [62, 70, 73], the primary CD8+ T cell deficiency will be aggravated as each person ages, as occurs in patients with MS [74] (Figure 3).

    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ad/2012/189096/
     
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  13. sorin

    sorin Senior Member

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    My CD4/CD8 is 0.65 low (CD4=824, CD8=1269 high). My HIV tests are negative. Looking at the other options you mentioned:
    • Bone marrow problems related to chemotherapy
    • Anemia
    • Multiple sclerosis, myasthenia gravis, or another nervous system condition
    • Chronic infection
    I did not do chemotherapy. I did full blood counts and anemia was not discovered. MS was excluded by neurologists. Then remains "chronic infection". Infection with what?
     
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  14. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Assuming the counts are consistently like that, something antigenically stimulating and capable of persisting; hep B/C, herpesvirus, enterovirus, parovirus, etc. What all have you been tested for?
     
  15. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    this seems like an impossible nut to crack
     
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  16. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @halcyon - any idea what a HIGH cd4/cd8 is associated with? I have low CD8 and high CD4
     
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  17. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Not sure. It looks like you're in the normal range for both CD4 and CD8 still even though the ratio is a bit high.
     
  18. sorin

    sorin Senior Member

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    I tested for hepatitis, HIV, Lyme, HSV, CMV, EBV, HSV, HHV6, HTLV, ... etc, almost for everything, maybe I can not remember all I have been tested for...
     
  19. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Senior Member

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    I too have a LOW CD4/CD8 Ratio of 0.85 (normal range 1.00-3.78). My CD8% is HIGH and CD4% is at low end of normal range. CD19% is LOW as well at 8% (normal range 9-23%). In addition my NK Cell Function is VERY LOW at 4.

    The last time I had a T Cell Panel done was in January and that time my CD4/CD8 Ratio was 1.21
     
  20. sorin

    sorin Senior Member

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    And what was the doctor's comment regarding this low CD4/CD8 due to high CD8?
     

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