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What's this veggie folate deficiency I see mentioned?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Jay1218, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. Jay1218

    Jay1218

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    I've heard Freddd and a few others talk about a veggie folate deficiency or something. Can someone explain what that is exactly? I was under the impression that veggies provide the active form of folate so your body doesn't need to convert it, so howcome that would be a problem for some people?

    I add a lot of leafy greens to my smoothies (kale and spinach mainly) and I've been noticing that after my smoothies, a lot of times my symptoms will get worse. Could this possibly be from the greens?
  2. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    As an alternate option, when I was pushing greens myself, I inadvertently raised the level of my iron, etc. higher than was healthy. I was trying to force them down when I didn't really want them, and it turned out there was a reason why my body was telling me not to have any more.

    Obviously that may not be your particular issue, but I thought it might be worth mentioning. If you're consistently not feeling well after having them, for whatever reason, it may be worth cutting back some.
  3. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    I am experiencing the same. After 2 days in a row of juicing I feel worse too. I am mutated A1298C+- hetero.
  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Generally speaking veggies provide what is called "dietary folates" which is a term to indicate several forms of folate you can find in food, but they are still way up in the ladder of transformation to methylfolate.
    If your MTHFR enzyme is working fine you will be able to easily convert those into methylfolate, otherwise if you are like me (homozygous mthfr c667t) and many others here you will just convert a minor portion ending up with a deficiency.

    You may want to read this:
    http://mthfr.net/can-a-homozygous-mthfr-gene-mutation-can-be-managed-by-diet-alone/2011/09/28/
  5. Jay1218

    Jay1218

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    Yeah it could be an inadvertent thing too like you said. Ugh this stuff is so confusing. I thought greens were supposed to be good for you!

    I'm also hetero for MTHFR A1298C and C677T so I have both of them unfortunately.

    Good article. Okay so I was wrong then. For some reason I thought I read that dietary folates are already in the active form but I guess not.

    So for people that aren't able to tolerate greens and veggies, are they getting all of their nutrients from supplements? I feel like there has to be a better solution than eliminating one of the healthiest food sources on the planet from our diet and getting nutrients from a pill instead.
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jay,

    I eat a decent amount of veggies. I don't deprive myself and have a nice organic garden. But I have to be careful. The more veggie folates I eat the more methylfolate I have to take to overcome the veggie folates. If I eat too much I can't take enough methylfolate. I have no idea what percentage of people have this problem. I had problems starting to manifest as a young child and then it got much worse when folic acid came into my life via vitamin cereals and such.
  7. Jay1218

    Jay1218

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    Hey Freddd,

    Thanks for jumpin in here. Yeah I think for now I will try to cut back a little just to see if anything changes. There are so many variables right now and I've had this daily feeling of nauseousness for like the past 3 months that won't go away no matter what I do. Some days it is okay and some it gets really bad.

    I'm thinking it could possibly be one of these factors:
    • Folate deficiency (trying to up my folate intake but that doesn't seem to be helping)
    • B12 deficiency from the Whey protein I've been taking daily (like you just mentioned in the glutathione thread)
    • Veggie folate deficiency
    • Who knows what else?
    The B12 makes sense too because I just got my 23 and me results back and sent them over to a doctor in my area that specializes in genetic mutations and she read it and said one of the issues is I'm having a hard time getting B12 into my cells. Will try taking more B12 to see if it helps. I have an appointment with her but not for like 3 weeks so hopefully then I will have a better plan to go off of.

    And yeah growing up my diet was pretty much all crappy fortified foods (cereals, breads, pizzas, pop tarts, all the worst stuff you can think of) and I didn't eat really any fruits or vegetables so I was probably a deficiency waiting to happen.
  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Jay,
    "my symptoms" are not enough for us to really tell what the kale and spinach could be doing. Spinach is my arch enemy because it is high in histamine. Tomatoes, fermented, aged and cultured foods - all of them torture me. But like the symptoms of paradoxical folate deficiency, there are many different symptoms of histamine intolerance (and many of the two overlap). So, before I go on...
    What of your symptoms get worse?
  9. jammies

    jammies

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    Some veggies are very high in oxalates which can cause issues for some people.
    alex3619 likes this.
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Especially spinach. Kale too? I am not sure about kale.
  11. Jay1218

    Jay1218

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    Hi Critterina,

    My bad, just realized I wasn't very clear on the symptoms. It's actually kinda hard for me to pinpoint because I feel like every day the symptoms change slightly.

    The one thing that's been pretty consistent for the past few months is a near-constant nausea. It goes in waves throughout the day where sometimes it will be really strong, and sometimes it's more a lingering nausea where I know it's there, but still tolerable.

    Keep in mind this feeling is there from the second I wake up in the morning, before I even eat, so I don't think it is completely attributed to the food, maybe partly so but I'm not sure.

    The other symptoms are occasional brain fog, and feeling spacey or just "out of it" in my head. Also anxiety comes and goes, but I've had anxiety for years.

    I feel like when I eat my solid meals which are usually high protein/fat/complex carbs (eggs, coconut oil, grass-fed beef, ground chicken, turkey bacon, rice, potatoes, etc.) I usually feel decent while eating and for a little while after. Once the food digests, the symptoms (mainly nausea) start coming back.

    However, I normally also do 2 green smoothies every day which is something like almond milk or coconut water, fruit (bananas, cherries, pineapple, or berries), greens (spinach or kale), and a grass-fed whey protein. It seems like the nausea hits harder after these and I also get a bloated feeling where I will feel super full for like 4 hours even though I know the food is definitely digested by then.

    But it's not every single time with these either. Sometimes I can make a smoothie like the above and feel fine. I'd say more often than not though, the nausea and bloating is at it's worst after these.

    This didn't always happen either, so I don't think I have an intolerance necessarily. I've been doing those smoothies for years and only recently started having issues after I began methylation.

    I stopped the whey and greens a couple days ago and it seems to be not as bad, but I've also cranked up my folate/B12 which may be helping too.
  12. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I had all day nausea and nighttime acid regurgitation. It all stopped a couple of days after I got effective MeCbl going. It could be the green drink and whey were blocking both MeCbl and methylfolate and causing a lot of your symptoms. You could try staying away from them for a good while and see what happens.
  13. Jay1218

    Jay1218

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    Hey Freddd,

    Yep, that's exactly what I'm trying now. I switched over to a pea/rice blend of protein powder and cut out the greens from the smoothies, so now it's just fruit, almond milk or coconut water, and this new protein powder.

    The bloating certainly seems to have calmed down and I'm not sure if this is just a coincidence or if it's a sign that inflammation is subsiding, but the past couple days my abs have been way more visible than before. I've always been lower on the body fat percentage but my abs weren't too visible so I'm wondering if it was inflammation this whole time.

    Will keep it going and see what happens.

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