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What's the *cause* of alpha wave sleep disorder?

Messages
43
Location
San Diego, California
Can anyone comment on what we know at this point about the actual cause of *why* the alpha wave is going on for many of us? I've got an horrific case of it...sleep doc said worse he'd seen. It was bad to begin with, made worse by the treatment: benzodiazepines (mostly Ativan). I'm off benzos almost four years now and sleep still is not recovered. I'm on groups online for those who've had long term consequences from benzos (post withdrawal syndromes)...Best thing is time off the med to heal. But just trying to figure out if my brain will ever go back to normal and if part of it is the cfs sleep prob to begin with (and not just the ativan damage)...what I can do to fix myself. There seems no lack of google entries on alpha delta sleep etc, but i see little discussing the cause of the alpha wave intrusion to begin wtih. Anyone have info?

Thanks!
 

Iquitos

Senior Member
Messages
513
Location
Colorado
I don't have any information on the why of it but I've suffered from it for over 30 years now.

But I have found a lot of relief by using medical cannabis. I'm even having dreams again, although I don't usually remember them. I know because there's that fleeting remembrance of a dream when I'm awakened by the urge to urinate or some noise wakes me.

I don't appreciate the side effects: some dizzyness right after I take my cannabis tincture, and the "marijuana munchies" contributing to weight gain. But getting better sleep is SO worth it.
 

WillowJ

คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl
Messages
4,940
Location
WA, USA
I'm not sure anyone knows--and my sleep doc didn't, either. Maybe pain? Upper airway resistance has been suggested as contributing to sleep problems, as has reduced heart rate variability.

Oddly we also have intrusive delta waves during the day, so maybe none of those.
 
Messages
426
Location
southeast asia
No more info on this?
This is new to me. Im not sure if what i experience similiar to this.
Is it when you have difficulty get into deep sleep and stuck in alpha state?
Also what i worry is meditation supposed to help or make it worse? since meditation increase alpha wave right.
I knew that benzo drug makes it harder to enter deep sleep but for people with difficulty asleep tend to use it cause what should we do :(
Biofeedback is therapy using audio to change brainwave? Is it really effective?
 
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heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,086
Location
australia (brisbane)
Random thoughts here,
cortisol and dysfunctional cortisol rhythm. Circadian rhythm dysfunction, cytokines and inflammation, excess nmda and glutamate, gaba receptor resistance, low serotonin, high adrenaline/noradrenaline, high histamine, low dhea, low progesterone, pain, increased urinary frequency, sleep apnea, restless legs, neuropathy.

I'm sure there's more plus mix and match the combinations? ?
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
Alpha stim increases alpha wave right? How does that help? arent we trying to get rid of alpha? i did do neuro training but it didnt help.

Usually in ME the common finding is excess/elevated beta and (that can be caused be medication such as benzos according to comments on a bottom of a test report I have, I'd never thou had benzos at that time). The canadian consenus doc mentions it and its something I have.

My alpha waves with my ME is "poorly developed" according to my test results.
 

WillowJ

คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl
Messages
4,940
Location
WA, USA
Alpha wave intrusion is instances of waking for a moment during sleep.

I additionally seem to have the problem of staying in Stage 1 (very light ) sleep instead of sleeping well. I would have claimed I was awake but polysomnography claimed that was Stage 1 sleep. Could be why it does help me a little to "fake sleep" as Toni Bernhard puts it (no guarantees this is the same stage for her as for me )
 
Messages
426
Location
southeast asia
@WillowJ that seems familiar to me. Is it why i get awaken easily even from slightly sound, etc.
Which is why we get unrefreshing sleep. And its restoration process isnt complete. And we left with problems.
@taniaaust1 but benzo supposed to induce relaxation state=alpha. Not beta. :confused:
Benzo suppressed REM sleep however.
@heapsreal thats exactly what i thought too. Must be neuro, hormonal issue. And cfs does have a wide range of body function wackyness which are connected/overlapping.
I read about delta wave sleep disorder. its role to reduce cortisol, healing fuction, fix hormonal imbalance, decrease sympathetic and increase parasympathetic, etc. It stated some condition could cause problem to damage ability to enter the stage.
No wonder this sleep problem has been a vicious cycle for me. :(
Sleep have big impact on me but i have difficulty sleeping.

I think neurofeedback only for increasing alpha instead? But cant delta/theta.
Commonly people are to fix, obtain alpha wave.

Drug increase REM sleep maybe could help. But i dont think i could take it.
 
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heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,086
Location
australia (brisbane)
I find I need a benzo or z drug to initiate sleep. I think if the dose is kept sane than its like hormone replacement but it's gaba replacement. But I find I need an antihistamine to help increase sleep depth.

Tolerance is going to be an issue with chronic sleep problems so I mostly alternate between different meds in these classes.

baclofen is a gaba B drug that is said to increase stage 4 sleep. My experience is on its own it didn't do a lot but in combination with other sleep meds it seemed to increase sleep quality.

With benzos I give myself a top dosage equivalent to 10mg of valium so equal to 15mg zopiclone etc

I think many with ME have damage done to those functions that control sleep. Poor sleep on its own can increase inflammation, reduce immune function etc

the orexin inhibiting drug which I can't remember the name of is suppose to be on the market now or very soon. I haven't heard from anyone who has used it yet. It's sounds promising.

The perfect sleep med is like finding the goose that lays the golden egg.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
Alpha wave intrusion is instances of waking for a moment during sleep.

Is that a generally accepted explanation of why alpha waves appear during sleep, @WillowJ?


If so, then perhaps the focus here should be on what causes these instances of brief waking moments during sleep.

One obvious possibility is that noises during the night (such as cars driving by) may momentarily wake you. ME/CFS patients generally have a much greater sensitivity to sounds (ie, even during the day, ordinary sounds can be very disturbing and overstimulating to the mind if you have ME/CFS), so I imagine this greater sensitivity to sounds may make ME/CFS patients more easily aroused and thus momentarily awoken from sleep when there are noises during the night.

I have not had any sleep studies done on myself, but I know that I used to get woken up many times during the night because of noises like cars driving by.

My solution is to wear ear plugs while I sleep. This has greatly increased the quality and depth of my sleep.

The best ear plus I have ever found are Mack's Ear Seals. These are so good, that even when there was a pneumatic drill (jackhammer) just outside my bedroom, breaking up the tarmac on the road in the early morning, I put in these Mack's Ear Seals, and that extremely loud noise outside my house just faded into the distance, and I was able to get back to sleep, and sleep right through all the pneumatic drilling.

The Mack's Ear Seals ear plug actually fits into the ear canal. However, because of this, I don't find Mack's Ear Seals all that comfortable, so I only use them when there are roadworks or similar loud noises outside when I need to sleep.

But on most nights, I just use regular foam-type ear plugs that insert into the outer ear.
 
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WillowJ

คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl
Messages
4,940
Location
WA, USA
Is that a generally accepted explanation of why alpha waves appear during sleep, @WillowJ?

It is generally accepted that an alpha wave is a wave that occurs when awake and relaxed.

Thus, some sleep docs do describe it as frequent wakening if this happens often. It does not seem to be an official sleep disorder (I know someone that their sleep doc originally described their polysomnography as having no significant abnormalities, but when pressed admitted the patient was waking 25 times an hour).
 

perchance dreamer

Senior Member
Messages
1,688
Alpha intrusions occur during sleep when your brainwaves rise almost to the point of consciousness, but not quite. It's very common for people with fibro and narcolepsy. When I had my first sleep study, I had dozens of alpha intrusions an hour.

You can have simultaneously brainwaves that are way too high, associated with hypervigilance, and brainwaves way too low.

@Wayne, I second the recommendation of the Alpha-Stim. I do so many things for sleep and do have to take medicine, but the Alpha-Stim boosts my sleep in a way no supplement does.

There are other cranial electrical stimulation devices, but the Alpha-Stim has been around for decades and is very well researched.

I used to do a lot of brainwave biofeedback. The therapist told me that the Alpha-Stim helps normalize the brainwave pattern. On an EEG, after Alpha-Stim use, the brainwaves that are too high--associated with anxiety and hypervigilance--and the brainwaves that are too low--associated with fatigue and depression--become more normal. The spikiness you see in an EEG with people who have one or more of these conditions becomes smoother.

In the U.S., the Alpha-Stim requires a prescription by a licensed healthcare professional. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but in the past a chiropractor could prescribe one.

You have to be patient and willing to experiment with the Alpha-Stim. You have to find the intensity, duration, time of day, and number of times a week to use it. Also, some people benefit more from using it with their eyes closed rather than open.

Here are FAQs about the Alpha-Stim:

http://www.alpha-stim.com/alpha-stim-technology/faqs/

For alpha intrusions, Xyrem also helps, and I've read that Trazodone increases deep wave sleep, too. @heapsreal, I use Baclofen every 3rd night, and it helps me with both pain and sleep.
 

Dreambirdie

work in progress
Messages
5,569
Location
N. California
@perchance dreamer The Alpha-Stim made my sleep worse. It caused over-stimulation and hyperactivity, and that effect lasted for about 3 weeks after the ast time I used it.

Everybody is different and every body is different.
 

perchance dreamer

Senior Member
Messages
1,688
Hi, @Dreambirdie, you are right. Everyone is different. The Alpha-Stim certainly won't help everyone.

I do like to recommend trying the Alpha-Stim, though, because it can be very effective and is a treatment that is not a medicine or supplement. Many distributors let you rent to own. I think trying it out first at home before buying it is the only way to go.

I once had the same problems with the Alpha-Stim that you mentioned, and I put it away for a long time. I think a lot of us with fibro/CFIDS have highly sensitive brains, easily overstimulated. For some reason, though, it's working for me now, and I have an extremely over sensitive system.

I use it at the lowest setting of 1. The instructions and my sleep clinic say to try using it to just below the point where the tingling is uncomfortable or you experience dizziness, but that's too high for me.

I've found that using it every 3rd night at a setting of 1 for thirty minutes with my eyes closed helps me most.

I knew a nurse once who went to training in Mineral Wells, TX, where the Alpha-Stims are manufactured, and they said that for sleep problems many people benefit most by using it at a low setting.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
What general benefits have you noticed from using the Alpha-Stim for ME/CFS, @perchance dreamer? Are the benefits mainly just for sleep, or does it help other ME/CFS symptoms too?
 
Messages
426
Location
southeast asia
@heapsreal thanks for sharing :thumbsup:
Unfortunately i dont think i could try out drugs cause my condition is very sensitive. :ill:
@Hip been having earplugs since i was a child. But long term use make my ears irritated. (I even search info for it and learn about ear plugs but no other option i can get) Mine was the foam type. For loud noise i still get bothered. So i also use fans, air purifier as a white noises. Those helping but still cant help with loud noise(though other people dont get bother by it).
ive tried cranial electrical stimulation before but no different. Either the doctor did it wrong or it failed.


Id like to get a proper sleep studies but its harder to sleep there. So its different than my regular sleep. Also the pressure of must sleeping and get detected makes it harder. :bang-head:
My sleeping issue also go ups and downs randomly.