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What's high in polyphenols, especially apple polyphenols?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Changexpert, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    After reading several research papers stating that procyanidin can promote hair growth, I wanted to give it a try. Since apple polyphenols contain procyanidin, I ordered apple polyphenol extract. Unfortunately, I had very adverse reactions like histamine sensitivity, increased hair loss, and body rashes from just one dose.

    My food sensitivity from April revealed that I was very slightly allergic to apple (almost normal). This makes me wonder if there is an ingredient or metabolism mechanism of polyphenol that is not suitable for my body. Is polyphenol metabolized by our body in a special manner? Phenols do not have sulfur, which is one element I have huge trouble with (http://phenol-explorer.eu/compounds). I am not sure why I had such negative reactions. Has anybody tried this and experienced something similar? Please share your experience. Thank you.
     
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Phenol is huge in terms of food intolerances. There are a number of supplements to help digest it (e.g. No-Fenol).
    Just do a google search for phenol diet. Here is one example. Magnesium oxide saved me from salicylate intolerance.
     
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  3. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    That was very helpful. I knew I had to be missing some enzymes because of all the sensitivity I have to certain elements and supplements. I took a quick look at No-Fenol and this one contains 4 enzymes that are not normally seen in common "complete digestive enzyme supplements." Those 4 enzymes are xylanase, phytase, beta glucanase, and alpha galactosidase, which are used to break down fiber (phytase, beta glucanase), galactose (alpha galactosidase), and hemicellulose, which is a part of plant wall cell (xylanase).

    I am not sure which one of those 4 is used to break down phenol. Maybe it is the combination of those four (plus others that are produced from gut), but this is definitely very interesting. Do you know what causes phenol/salicylate intolerance to begin with? Is it mainly caused by lack of enzymes due to gut issue?

    Is it the ring structure of phenol that gives trouble to people with leaky gut? I say this because I also have issue with vitamin D, but this is just a wild guess.

    I have tried three different digestive enzymes so far and one of them actually contained all 4 enzymes that are specific for carbohydrate digestion. The product was called Omegazyme by Garden of Life. Unfortunately, that product gave me severe heartburn after one use and I could not continue using it after third trial. Omegazyme was definitely too potent for my system, so I need to look for an alternative. Do you know other products for phenol breakdown? I found this and this, which contain all the enzymes I am looking for.

    Lastly, what has helped you with salicylate intolerance? I think my symptoms are mild, but I would like to tackle this issue before it becomes more problematic. Is magnesium oxide the only beneficial supplement? How about other forms of magnesium? I would sincerely appreciate your response.
     
  4. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I'm just guessing here, but I have a feeling the reason you had a problem with Omegazyme is that it contains ingredients (herbs, etc) that are high in salicylates, which are phenolic compounds. Ginger, turmeric are both very high in salicylates.

    http://salicylatesensitivity.com/about/food-guide/seasonings-condiments-sauces-toppings/

    I haven't figured out completely how to resolve salicylate intolerance, but it's my understanding that one needs b6 (or p5p), magnesium, and sulfur (or sulfates) to help detoxify them (transsulfuration?). They're also detoxed (according to some sources and studies) w/sodium bicarbonate and glycine -- but some have found that increase glycine may result in increase OXALATE problems, so it's very complex and frustrating.

    The PhenolGest product looks somewhat similar to No-Fenol. I'd pick that over the Digest Gold w/ATP Pro, as the ATP pro has alpha-lipoic acid in it. Some find this to be a problem when it comes to mercury, while others say it's safe. For now, I'm avoiding it.

    But I'd avoid the Omegazyme, and in fact any Garden of Life products, especially if you have salicylate or phenol intolerances, not to mention others. Their products have too many ingredients in general, so it's always difficult to know what one is reacting to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
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  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Its a shame about apple allergy. Most of the polyphenols are in the skin. Indeed, its the fruit skins that contain the most plant antioxidants.
     
  6. UM MAN

    UM MAN Senior Member

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    Do you react to all polyphenols? Blueberries?, Quercetin?, Grapeseed Extract?, Ginger?, etc.

    Have you considered a PST (phenol sulfotransferase) deficiency?
     
  7. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    My personal hypothesis is gut dysbiosis producing excess acidity. Tips: oral magnesium oxide if you tolerate it, and using sodium bicarbonate as shower scrub. I have been showering daily with bicarb only for over a year and my sweating and sweat odor disappeared. However for some people sodium bicarb worsens candida issues (for me it it improves even that).

    Useful links:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-probiotic-solution.37927/page-12#post-630295
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/rethinking-probiotics.24643/page-5#post-618691
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/food-sensitivities-and-pst.32839/

    Edit - there is an inexpensive enzyme intended for gluten, but I think it should work well for other foods called Gluten-Zyme which contatind L. johnsonii.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Also, if you haven't looked into oxalates yet,
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-probiotic-solution.37927/page-12#post-630536
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-probiotic-solution.37927/page-13#post-631269

    IME salicylate sensitivity was only the tip of the iceberg, in fact the folks from the oxalate community say that it is one manifestation of oxalate problem.
    http://www.lowoxalate.info/
    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Trying_Low_Oxalates/info
    However I would never supplement calcium as they advise to do.
     
  9. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    Completely agree with GoL products... They load way too much "healthy" stuff in a bottle, so I can never figure out what I am reacting badly to. I ended up getting MucoStop from Enzymedica, which has all 4 enzymes I mentioned plus mucolase. I have been suffering from mucus throughout my entire life and I always get phlegm after I eat a meal, no matter how restrictive my diet is. Also, I ordered Daosin from Swanson to see if how much impact histamine has on my overall health. I have been chelating with ALA only protocol (frequent dosage chelation) for 125 days now. I plan to continue until day 320 (sounds so far away :nerd:).

    I do not think I react to all polyphenols, or at least according to food allergy test. I tested normal for blueberries and strawberries. Ginger, definitely yes. When I eat ginger, I get some funny feelings in my stomach and my body starts to itch, which I think is related to histamine reaction. I took quercetin in the past and it led to some hair shedding and rashes as well. I did not take grapeseed extract long enough to evaluate its effect on my body, but I am assuming it would act similarly to apple extract.

    What is PST? Is there a SNP or blood test that I can look into?

    I think something is definitely off with my pH level inside. My urine pH level has been slightly acidic. I vaguely remember reading from this forum that urine pH level is optimal around 7.2~7.4 and only becomes acidic (below 7) when there is a health issue like gut issue, bacterial infection, methylation, etc. However, my body ALWAYS reacts negatively to something that alkalizes internal system like apple cider vinegar, baking soda, alkaline water, and green veggies. I get histamine reaction almost immediately and my bowel movement slows down so much when I consume anything I mentioned above. Why would this be?

    Which gluten-zyme are you referring to? I saw ones from Country Life, Now, and Enzymedica, but none of them sounded like the one you were referring to. I am very sensitive to wheat according to food allergy test, so maybe gluten enzyme would help me.

    Lastly, can you briefly describe the relationship between oxalate and salicylate please?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Dysbiosis.
    Sorry, my mistake, it contains L. helveticus in the probiotic blend. I think it takes much more for an enzyme to be effective for real gluten intolerance though.

    Perhaps you need Lactate-free probiotics.
    No, I could only speculate. I think it is described somewhere in the Low Oxalate site.
     
  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
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