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What's causing post-meal crashing?

Discussion in 'Post-Exertional Malaise, Fatigue, and Crashes' started by CBS64, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    USA.Earth
    Good point about blood, if you have low blood volume this would be logical. However, research shows we have lower bloodflow to vital organ systems, so that might balance out.

    I still would focus on the small intestine, something getting through that should not, it might be leaking.

    Here is a concise explanation:

    http://altmedicine.about.com/od/healthconditionsdisease/a/TestLeakyGut.htm

    Also, if there WERE a problem with blood volume being 'hoarded' by the gut, one would expect that to be almost perpetual, as there is always some digestive process going on, from the small intestine through the colon. The timing of the post-meal crash reported by CBS64 aligns well with a small intestinal leakage problem. And that can be tested for and also treated. But also, perhaps both factors are involved, both the PEM type of effect from digestion of a new meal as well as LGS...
     
  2. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    For me it usually kicks in about 45 minutes after eating, it's definitely circulatory, and it only occurs in the first half of my day. It shows up when I've

    a) been overdoing it
    b) had caffeine a day or so ago
    c) had a vasodilator like garlic or an epsom salt bath (magnesium)

    Weak heart, low blood volume, and burnt adrenals (medulla, producing noradrenalin and DHEA -which is the back up when the former is exhausted) would set this up. So to manage it I take it easy, stay away from anything that stimulates the adrenals, and avoid vasodilators. But when somehow I manage to mess things up, I fast for the first 8-9 hours and then eat in the latter half of the day (anabolic phase) when my energy is better and the heart is still able to get the blood around easily enough.
     
  3. CBS64

    CBS64

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    I can't thank you all enough for your feedback on this issue. Based on the comments here, I think I may have an idea as to what's been going on with the sudden, dramatic post-meal crashing. I started taking Epsom salt baths about a month ago to help with the very severe insomnia I was having. I only did the full baths a few times per week, but on the other days did an Epsom salt foot soak for at least 10 minutes before bed. I'm so grateful for Dufresne's comment about Epsom being a vasodilator, as I didn't realize that.

    My adrenals have also been quite weak due to the lack of sleep and some supplements I've been taking to cure an H. pylori infection (mastic and zinc-carnosine). After reading the comments here about low blood volume, I found this article online by Dr. Teitelbaum on the topic http://www.endfatigue.com/health_articles_c/Cfs_fm-treating_low_blood_volume_and_heart.html . He also mentions anemia as a factor. I then found an article online that said that H. pylori causes anemia. I don't eat red meat and haven't been taking iron supplements, so I'm thinking that might be a factor in making the low blood volume worse. I just started taking some iron yesterday.

    I've also started to increase my salt intake and have taken 1/2 tsp. of baking soda in water after breakfast the last couple of days. (Does anyone know how much salt is okay for PWC to consumer per day?) And I've increased the fat content in my breakfast, as some have recommended here.

    I've also been experiencing some pretty intense autonomic nervous system reactions late at night due to ileoccecal valve syndrome (ICV), which started a few months ago shortly after I had laparoscopic surgery. With the ICV issue, I will sometimes get woozy at night after standing and can feel nausea. I've been trying to get a handle on what's causing this condition and so far I've only concluded that it flares up if I eat any roughage or anything I'm somewhat allergic to. But sometimes it seems to flare up for no reason I can discern. I had a colonoscopy recently and they said everything looked okay, so there must be something functional/systemic going on. But the ICV issue is definitely tied in with the autonomic nervous system.

    So, I'm going to try skipping the Epsom baths (and hopefully finding something else to help me sleep!), increasing salt and fat, and taking iron to see if that helps. If anyone has any other ideas, I would greatly appreciate hearing them -- especially for how to stabilize the autonomic nervous system so it stays more stable after meals.

    But I want to thank you all again. You've saved me hours of research, which I haven't had the brain function or energy to do. I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  4. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    I have the same medical issue as xchocoholic and have been diagnosed with hyperinsulinemia from a 2hr glucose tolerance test done with checking for insulin levels too (note 2hr GTT tests arent always done with the insulin being checked so if anyone here has had one, check they did your insulin level at same time).

    Those who have hyperinsulinemia (a problem which many doctors dont have a clue about), will find they do better with a high protein, low carb diet. The protein helps regulate the insulin levels.

    I can be getting major symptoms from my hyperinsulinemia 15-20mins after Ive eatten (possibly earlier but major symptoms for me stand out after 15mins). For myself this is mood swing, fatigue and a sore throat. The tiredness I get from the hyperinsulinemia can last right throu till next day. There are so many different symptoms this issue can cause individuals. For myself it also seems to be able to bring on POTS (or maybe its another reason the eatting can bring on POTS)

    I are okay with a segment of mardarine but what one has eatten earlier may still have the insulin levels up and hence at times a wee amount of more carbs is enough to throw one over the edge and into symptoms. My current limit of carbs I can have before I get symptoms is only 40g, that is if I havent already got insulin in my system from previous meals, (think one banana and one glass of milk.. and i can be at my complete carb limit and on verge of getting ill... for myself my insulin levels can be still high on insulin tests even after a 12hr fast).


    Due to my insulin issues my specialist has told me to only have 10 nuts a day... nuts they do contain protein but also have carbs. I personally can have a hyperinsulinemia attack throu too many nuts.

    To the original poster.. if you dont mind me asking.. can you give some examples of your normal meals?

    You do say you eat low carb but I wonder if you are eatting low enough if in fact you do have hyperinsulinemia. (my specialist said anything over 1g carb of carb at a time can possibly cause an insulin spike... my diet for the insulin issue is FAR STRICTER then a normal diabetic diet.. I'd be quite sick from insulin if I was on a normal low carb diabetic diet due to the amount of carbs in them).

    Also many people arent aware fully of their foods when it comes to carbs.. you say you are eatting low gluten.. does this mean you are eatting things like rice?? rice is high in carbs (I dont eat rice as its quite high.. one cup of rice is enough to make me ill). Ive been told also not to eat over 1 small piece of fruit per day due to its carbs... and things like corn, potatoes, carrots etc are currently too high to add to my diet.

    Another thing Ive been been told to do to help deal with the issue..is always eat protein before having any amount of carbs.. eg meat first. I start my day off with two eggs.
     
  5. TinyT

    TinyT Senior Member

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    Australia
    I dont know how much salt is ok, my docs just said use liberal amounts!

    As long as you dont have hypertension (high blood pressure) then you should be ok. Do you have a home BP monitor? Mine is usually pretty low in the morning and during the day and the best it gets by night-time is 110/60 after heaps of water & salt/rehydration mix. My BP can be as low as 85/50 in the morning.

    Can you check with your doc about the salt?
     
  6. TinyT

    TinyT Senior Member

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    I sympathise with your H.Pylori troubles. I tested positive about 2 months ago and went on a weeks worth of high dose anti-biotics and nexium (proton-pump inhibitor). Have you tried antibiotics for H.Pylori eradication?

    In regards to adrenal function, I found that licorice root helps to stimulate adrenal function (and also increases Blood Pressure). You need to use non-DGL licorice root (not DGL type).
     
  7. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Take care.. some of us have too low stomach acid. (low stomach acid gives some GERD).
     
  8. Tristen

    Tristen Senior Member

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    Northern Ca. USA
    Sounds like Postprandial Hypo-tension. More blood to the intestines to digest the food leaving less blood elsewhere, like the brain. Those of us who already have problems with low blood volume, will have exacerbated symptoms after eating. I used to have this really bad when the OI was at it's worst. The larger and more bulky the meal, the more exacerbated the symptoms, mostly OI, POTS, cognitive changes. Eating smaller, and more frequent meals, and using isotonic solutions for maintaining blood volume, was quite helpful.

    It would be most interesting if you could get a Blood Pressure and Pulse before and an hour after eating sitting in the same position both times.
     

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