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What was reverse/mickel therapy/lightning process like for you

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
in reverse and mocked therapy
This made my day!

Is Phil Parker's Lightning Prcess under a copyright? If it is then he would have to be PAID if anyone used his method. This would mean for the LP study on children, part of the expense of the study would be to pay him. Have they somehow gotten around this or are using a bastardized version of LP?

I still don't understand how a British study could be passed by an ethics committee for approval.:mad:

Then there is the question of why the study is using LP instead of CBT?

Am I missing something here?

Found this but haven't looked into it more. I don't think I'm emotionally ready. This guy is a charlatan and has been admonished for his advertising! Yeah, I'm definitely not emotionally ready to read this. Is there a therapy for this? :D

http://lightningprocess.com/research/
 
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sarah darwins

Senior Member
Messages
2,508
Location
Cornwall, UK
Is Phil Parker's Lightning Prcess under a copyright? If it is then he would have to be PAID if anyone used his method. This would mean for the LP study on children, part of the expense of the study would be to pay him. Have they somehow gotten around this or are using a bastardized version of LP?

I still don't understand how a British study could be passed by an ethics committee for approval.:mad:

It's astonishing, isn't it. The LP most certainly copyrights the hell out of everything. It's effectively a franchise. Some, if not all of their 'practitioners' are recruited from former 'trainees' and make heavy use of former 'trainees' in their promotional efforts, which may put you in mind of another organisation with which a certain allegedly quite short action movie star and another who once had chills that were multiplying are closely associated. Now if that organisation's methods were to be proposed for a study recruiting through the National Health Service, I think the press might have something to say about it [SMILE trial "The trial population was drawn from the Bath and Bristol NHS specialist paediatric CFS or ME service."]

I don't doubt that LP would have waived any payments for purposes of the SMILE trial etc. Why wouldn't they, considering that the study was being run by an arch psychobabbler? They had much to gain from it.

But other problems abound when you start thinking about it. For instance, I saw a video of Phil P where he suggested that he sends around 25-30% of applicants away to 'study more'. They weren't 'ready', whatever that means. So did the SMILE trial do this? Did it demand from participants with a diagnosed disease a level of 'readiness'? Has any other medical trial required that its participants study to become eligible? And who decided if they were ready? Phil P, who is an osteopath? (in the UK, osteopaths "may not practice medicine")

The LP is not run by medical practitioners. It's a self-proclaimed 'empowerment training programme'. So how the idea of the NHS referring sick children to it ever got past an ethics committee is beyond me.
 

Kalliope

Senior Member
Messages
367
Location
Norway
Then there is the question of why the study is using LP instead of CBT?
And that is a good question! I so miss a proper - independent - full depth evaluation of LP (completely unrelated to anything with ME, but an evaluation of LP as an approach in itself) in comparison with GBT by professionals, because it is not at all related. How is that not obvious for everybody in the field??

From ASAs assessment on LP:

On the issue of LP and CBT
2. the claim on the FAQ page that "The Lightning Process is completely unique" could be substantiated; and

Response from Phil Parker Group Ltd
2. Phil Parker Group said the LP had been designed solely by Phil Parker. They said he had no direct knowledge of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) or graded exercise therapy (GET) but that they believed GET encouraged a pacing approach to generally increasing the patient's exercise capacity, which was completely unlike the LP, which was not an exercise therapy.

They stated that CBT was a very broad field with very few accepted standard prescribed approaches, whereas the LP was a standardised training programme which meant a visit to a practitioner anywhere in the world should result in receiving the same training, material, tools and coaching. They said one of the core CBT approaches was a conscious evaluation, engagement and self-analysis of how the individual had been thinking about something; a recognition of how that might not have been the best way of thinking about it and a consideration of other ways of thinking. They explained that this was very unlike the LP approach which worked in training the individual to recognise any unhelpful ways of thinking; to disengage, avoid self-analysis and immersion in those ways of thinking and instead utilise a set of specific and standardised LP questions and physical movements to create new approaches to situations.

Assessment from ASA
2. Not upheld

We understood that GET and CBT were the two treatments for CFS/ME used within the NHS. We understood that GET was a structured exercise programme that aimed to increase gradually how long a person could carry out a physical activity. We understood that the LP involved only low intensity physical movements, the purpose of which were not to expand the body's capacity for exercise, and we considered that it therefore differed significantly from GET.

Although we considered that there appeared to be similarities between CBT and the LP, in that both attempted to provide people with new ways of thinking about the issues presented by their illness, we noted LP incorporated elements of hypnosis and meditation, as well as low intensity physical movement, and we considered that it therefore differed sufficiently from CBT to be regarded as "unique".

On this point, we investigated the website under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation), but did not find it in breach.
 

worldbackwards

Senior Member
Messages
2,051
The LP is not run by medical practitioners. It's a self-proclaimed 'empowerment training programme'. So how the idea of the NHS referring sick children to it ever got past an ethics committee is beyond me.
I'm curious as to how they'll be able to justify their usual subjective measures in a treatment that explicitly forbids negative thinking. That said, I've no doubt that where there's a will...
 

sarah darwins

Senior Member
Messages
2,508
Location
Cornwall, UK
I'm curious as to how they'll be able to justify their usual subjective measures in a treatment that explicitly forbids negative thinking. That said, I've no doubt that where there's a will...

No doubt. More, LP practitioners got to prep the kids ahead of the trial.

This was part of their ethics committee application! :-

young people and their parents will be asked to read the information about the Lightning Process on the website or using information sheets. If the young person is able to, they will be asked to read a book about the Lightning Process. If they are unable to read the book, they will be asked to listen to an audio book. Children/young people and their parents will be asked to complete an assessment form (which will take about 10 minutes) where they are asked to identify their goals and describe what they learnt from reading the book. After this they will have a telephone call with a Lightning Process Practitioner (LPP) (usually approximately 20 minutes). This is used to check that the young person and their parents are happy about attending the course, checks the goals identified by the young person and is an opportunity for the young person and their parents to ask further questions. If the young person and their family are happy to continue, the young person will be given a date to attend a course.

The more you look at SMILE, the more it seems like a surrealist parody of a clinical trial.
 

worldbackwards

Senior Member
Messages
2,051
If the young person is able to, they will be asked to read a book about the Lightning Process.
Let's just look at that again - IF THE CHILD IS ABLE TO READ. Not creepy at all then.
After this they will have a telephone call with a Lightning Process Practitioner (LPP) (usually approximately 20 minutes). This is used to check that the young person and their parents are happy about attending the course, checks the goals identified by the young person and is an opportunity for the young person and their parents to ask further questions.
So, just to confirm, absolutely NOT a screening process to eliminate kids who aren't suggestible enough to buy all this straight off.
 
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sarah darwins

Senior Member
Messages
2,508
Location
Cornwall, UK
Why not say outright: you can only participate if you're going to say nice things about the therapy.

They pretty much do in their online videos, although they express it as 'not being ready'.

Of course, the handy thing about using children for the trial was that children are unlikely to read a book they've been told will help them, then take a call from an adult they don't know and say "Frankly, I read your book and it's a crock of s**t".