1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and Beating the Clock
For Jody Smith, the ticking of a clock was enough at one time to chase her back to her bed. But with the passage of time, she has been able to reclaim her living room ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

What Stimulates IGF-1 other than Growth Hormone?

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by Ema, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes:
    3,758
    Midwest USA
    I'm wondering if anyone knows things *other* than GH that can stimulate IGF-1?

    In a normal situation, a high level of GH would stimulate a high level of IGF-1 which would then follow a negative feedback loop and consequently decrease GH production. But if something else was stimulating the high IGF-1, then the GH level could remain low despite the high IGF-1. In this case, taking GH or a synthetic GHRH might have some benefit even with a high IGF-1.

    Any ideas what that *something* might be?

    It looks like cytokines may have some involvement too.

     
    heapsreal likes this.
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,309
    Likes:
    4,662
    australia (brisbane)
    il6 and tnf i think worsen sleep, dhea is suppose to counteract this???

    I think our low gh/igf comes down to our poor sleep. xyrem is suppose to improve sleep quality and increase gh.
    I have spoken to a couple of cfsers who used gh for 12months and it seemed to fix their sleep issues although no cure for cfs.

    Maybe some type of anti-inflammatory drug that effects il6 could work, other then dhea which i dont think is working well enough for me and my sleep, im not really sure what other options are out there for us. there are the tnf blockers etc but getting them prescribed would be the hardest part.

    ALso carbs can interfer with gh production, so some reduce the carbs at night.

    The ghrh look good but its hard to tell how effective they are as most of the info on there use is from bodybuilders who only judge the effects on muscle growth and fat loss, theres a few that say it improved their sleep but then again they dont have the sleep issues we have. ghrp2 looks the best option for me as it doesnt stimulate the appetitte like ghrp6.

    This is interesting thread and the stuff i have been looking into for awhile.
     
    Ema likes this.
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes:
    3,758
    Midwest USA
    So, @heapsreal, would you go straight for the GH supplementation itself if you were going to try it or give the GHRH a shot first? Do you think that there is anything to the claim that GHRH is safer somehow?

    Do you think an ITT (gulp) or an arginine stim test would reveal a growth hormone deficiency in the presence of high IGF-1?

    I have looked at my usual suspects (adenosine and prolactin) but can't find a connection so far. I think Il-6 is a good contender though.

    What TNF blockers are you looking at?

    I am going to try modafinil. I should have it in a few days. I'm excited and hope it works better than the Dexedrine did for me.
     
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,309
    Likes:
    4,662
    australia (brisbane)
    Enbrel is a tnf blocker used in autoimmune diseases also maybe methotrexate but they also have there side effects too.

    I have only read that igf testing is used to measure gh defiency as testing gh directly can be inaccurate. So I dont know if one can have high igf and low gh. I also think its igf that does all the good things not necessarily gh but im not certain of that.

    If I had the money I would go gh over peptides as gh is expensive. Personally I would go xyrem first but thats even more costly then gh. In reality if I try something it would be peptides purely for cost.
    I think the arginine stim test was used before they could test igf. I would think igf would be more accurate.

    I think fixing sleep is the key to gh for us how this is done??? There are so many things to look at like cortisol cycle, circadian rhythm. Cytokines. Hormones maybe receptor sensitivity. Leptin. Can go after them individually or more then likely its a combination.

    I also think that maybe the initial infection that started cfs may have damaged the hypothalamus and this causes all these dysfunctions?

    My sleep still isnt perfect but I think trying to fix hormones has helped.
     
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes:
    3,758
    Midwest USA
    So it looks like an oral glucose tolerance test can diagnose high GH...

    I guess you wouldn't be able to say GH was low based on this, but at least you could see if it was high from some reason other than IGF-1?

    Or would this not work very well in our population since many of us have some degree of metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance?
     
  6. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes:
    1,674
    Tundras of Europa
    DHEA increases IGF-1.
     
  7. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes:
    3,758
    Midwest USA
    Does DHEA have any effect on GH directly?

    My IGF-1 is high but my DHEA is super low. So something is clearly not working properly in this system for me.
     
  8. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes:
    1,674
    Tundras of Europa
    I don't think so.
     
  9. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes:
    3,758
    Midwest USA
    What do you know?

    GH is a cytokine that regulates immune function.

    Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2002 Feb 25;188(1-2):1-7.
    Growth hormone can act as a cytokine controlling survival and proliferation of immune cells: new insights into signaling pathways.
    Jeay S, Sonenshein GE, Postel-Vinay MC, Kelly PA, Baixeras E.
    Author information

    Abstract
    While growth hormone (GH) is classically defined as a peptide hormone, recent evidence supports a role for GH acting as a cytokine in the immune system under conditions of stress, counteracting immunosuppression by glucocorticoids. Lymphoid cells express the GH receptor, which belongs to the cytokine receptor superfamily, and GH can be produced by immune tissues, suggesting an autocrine/paracrine mode of action of GH. GH can act as a cytokine, promoting cell cycle progression of lymphoid cells and preventing apoptosis. These effects of GH were shown to be mainly mediated by the PI-3 kinase/Akt pathway and the transcription factor NF-kappaB. Expression of several cell cycle mediators, as well as Bcl-2, c-Myc and cyclin proteins were found to be regulated by GH. Survival of immune cells under conditions of stress was promoted by NF-kappaB. Thus, GH acts not only as a hormone but also as a cytokine, playing a potentially important role in immune system cells. Lastly, in this mini-review, we will discuss whether the discovery of these molecules in GH signaling pathways offers new insights into additional mechanisms of action whereby GH regulates apoptosis, proliferation and neoplastic transformation of cells of the immune system.
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  10. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes:
    3,758
    Midwest USA
    A little specific...but it looks like high ACTH might also suppress GH release.

    Suppressive action of ACTH on growth hormone secretion in patients with infantile spasms.
    Izumi T, Imaizumi C, Ashida E, Ochiai T, Wang PJ, Fukuyama Y.
    Abstract
    The changes in insulin-induced growth hormone secretion and in serum cortisol level were studied in 3 cases of West syndrome. The ACTH therapy consisted of an eight weeks course with gradual tapering every two weeks. Daily administration of 12.5 or 25.0 micrograms per kg ACTH for two weeks suppressed an insulin-induced rise in serum GH. The patients who showed sharply suppressed responses as to serum GH had been exposed to high cortisol levels of over 50 micrograms per dl serum. When they were examined before starting the therapy and 72 or 96 hours after the last ACTH injection, all the subjects showed a normal rise in the level of serum GH. The clinical implications of the findings were discussed in terms of the possible adverse effect on the developing brain.

    PMID:
    3008584
    [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
     
    Leopardtail likes this.
  11. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes:
    615
    England
    A GTT definitely would not give reliable indication of GH over production. There are several issues created by ME that can raise it including: Insulin resistance, elevated Cortisol, elevated Epinephrine, simple infection.
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes:
    2,961
    You can buy IGF-1 as a supplement called deer velvet antler. The "velvet" coat that grows on the antlers of deer is naturally high in IGF-1. Usually these velvet antler IGF-1 supplement come in the form of a sublingual spray, or sublingual drops.

    I found that a small dose of around 200 to 300 nanograms of IGF-1 just before bed makes you sleep like baby — ie, it creates a nice deep sleep.

    I tried several manufactures of velvet deer antler IGF-1, and I found the best and the strongest is the Nutronics Labs brand.

    Here are the details of some of the Nutronics Labs IGF-1 products, and also details of the NOW Foods IGF-1 product for comparison:

    Nutronics Labs IGF-1 PLUS Starter

    Total IGF-1 in bottle = 3,000 ng
    Servings per bottle = 90 servings (Serving = 2 sprays)
    IGF-1 dose per serving = 33 ng
    Cost = $20
    Nutronics Labs IGF-1 PLUS Ultra

    Total IGF-1 in bottle = 10,000 ng
    Servings per bottle = 90 servings (Serving = 2 sprays)
    IGF-1 dose per serving = 111 ng
    Cost = $60
    Nutronics Labs IGF-1 PLUS Maximum

    Total IGF-1 in bottle = 100,000 ng
    Servings per bottle = 60 servings (Serving = 12 drops)
    IGF-1 dose per serving = 1666 ng
    Cost = $120​

    NOW Foods IGF-1+ Liposomal Spray

    Total IGF-1 in bottle = 2,558 ng
    Servings per bottle = 93 servings (Serving = 2 sprays)
    IGF-1 dose per serving = 27.5 ng
    Cost = $15

    Note that ng = nanograms
    Note 1,000 ng = 1 microgram

    At a dose of around 200 to 300 ng of IGF-1, taken just before bed, I found I slept more profoundly, and I found this IGF-1 raised my libido very noticeably.

    However, at higher daily doses of IGF-1 around 800 ng or more, I started to feel anger and aggression side effects. So I suggest if you are going to try IGF-1 supplementation, keep to doses of 300 ng or lower.

    Note that these IGF-1 sprays/drops are designed be taken sublingually, but I found they work just as well, if not better, when I simply rubbed these products into my skin (transdermal application).
     
  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes:
    2,961
    @Ema
    I just realized that you are not in fact looking to raise your IGF-1, as it is high already, but rather are looking to raise growth hormone.
     
    Ema likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page