What is Methyl Trapping ?

[caledonia]

I just wrote a long post to ahmo trying to figure out some of my FP dosages, and it took all my brainpower. Unfortunately can't think straight anymore, and have to rest my eyes until tomorrow.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on increasing my FP dosages, as well as thoughts on my current doses. I know Fred says there are no ratios, but seeing what others have done can often help me figure things out. Sorry I can't think clearly enough to reference my questions to her, but they are all on posts above this post on this page. Still learning how to use the forum, and that combined with my eye problems makes it take forever to write a post!

I may have figured out a way to get some help to do some of the various testing you suggested, so I definitely will have more questions in the next day or two. This is very helpful, and I so appreciate it!

Like ahmo, I also use self muscle testing extensively.

The main thing is to be taking more B12 than folate so you don't get into methyl trapping. Other than that, everyone is an individual and you'll just have to either go by trial and error and/or muscle testing what is best for you.

See my document Start Low and Go Slow for all my info on titrating up, self muscle testing, dividing pills, etc.

 

[garyfritz]

@surfbaby @garyfritz: comment?

Sorry, nothing intelligent. I've found what works for me, but I am no expert in understanding this stuff. It bewilders me.

My personal experience: I use the Australian oils for my B12, roughly 1.5 mg/day of methyl B12, 4.5 mg/day of adenosyl B12 (injected equivalent). I also take 1.2 - 1.6 mg/day of methyl folate. I've found that I sometimes wake up in the night with hypervigilance, almost agitation, and it's impossible to fall back asleep. I noticed this happening after eating a bunch of deep-dish pizza -- lots of (folic-acid-containing) bread. At first I thought it was B12 symptoms but extra B12 didn't help. I finally thought to try methyl folate and that helped. So my 5MTHF symptoms are somewhat similar to my B12 symptoms, but B12 symptoms usually involve RLS/muscle twitches/etc.

I don't often have night-time folate problems with my 1.2-1.6mg daily dose, but when I do, I've found that taking a Solgar 400mcg tablet sublingually gets the folate into my system much faster than swallowing it. I don't think it's like B12, which has to stay in contact with your mucosa for a long time -- I think the sublingual path is just quicker. So sometimes I'll chew it a bit to break it up, and dissolve it quicker under my tongue.

 

[surfbaby]

Like ahmo, I also use self muscle testing extensively.

The main thing is to be taking more B12 than folate so you don't get into methyl trapping. Other than that, everyone is an individual and you'll just have to either go by trial and error and/or muscle testing what is best for you.

See my document Start Low and Go Slow for all my info on titrating up, self muscle testing, dividing pills, etc.

When you say more B12 then folate, I'm assuming you mean the total number of mcg or mg of MB12 for the day (or at each time of day that you take them?) should be more than folate? I get a little confused about this because I started FP with 1/4 tablets of each, so I often think of them in terms of percentages of a tablet rather than the mcg/mg, but I think I need to get used to thinking in terms of mcg/mg, as obviously the tablet strengths are varied.

Right now I'm taking 1,000 mcg Enzy MB12 3x/day = 3,000 mcg and 400mcg Solgar MF 3x/day = 1,200mcg. Does that sound like a fairly good ratio to you? It's so hard for me to be on the computer for very long because of my eyes, that I'm not sure the range of what other people have done, and just wonder if my dose is typical after a month doing FP. I did watch the YouTube about the muscle testing although I don't seem very good at it yet.

Last night when I was really tired from cooking all day I tried increasing MB12 by 250mcg and MF by 100mcg. I actually felt better, a little more energy, and happy for no apparent reason. I'm going to wait till later today to decide whether to keep this increase, because some supplements affect me differently at different times of the day.

For example, I have had a hard time tolerating AdB12 (tight chest--not exactly asthma but a little less air seems to come in, too speedy), but when I take it late at night when I'm really tired, it doesn't bother me as much. Though if I took too high of a dose, the next day I experienced slight increase of "asthma". After trying Country Life, Anabol Naturals, and Source Naturals, I discovered this week that I can tolerate Source Naturals the best, a bit more than a crumb (250-500 mcg) of SN almost daily now. Prior to that I was only able to handle taking CL (which I wanted to stop due to the folic acid) once or twice a week but in larger amounts (750mcg to 1,500mcg) late at night, but often had the breathing side effects the next day. Still trying to figure out if I should take it daily or once a twice a week. Do you have any opinion about this?

Also do you have any opinion about whether to take MF 30-60 minutes prior to MB12, or taking them at the same time? I have seen posts by Freddd for both ways, but his most recent one that I could find on 2/23/13 on page 1 of this thread, indicated 30-60 minutes prior was his preference: Freddd: "To heal you need the l-methyylfolate and MeCbl hitting the cells at the same time. If you take the folate 30-60 minutes before a sublingual, absorbtion and retention appears better, usually a small improvemnt, but then thats what I have done for 10 years, after the big ones are in place.It became a matter of gaining another few percentage points of improvement over and over again."

 

[surfbaby]

See my document Start Low and Go Slow for all my info on titrating up, self muscle testing, dividing pills, etc.

I did read start low and go slow-very informative! Now if I can get just get good at the self muscle testing. I think the two ring method works better for me than the ring and the finger but I'll keep trying. You obviously can't hold the item you're testing for if you're using both hands to muscle test, so do you just ask yourself a question about the supplement, and how would you word it?

I did read the polyurethane foam breast implant article, and I do plan to go through everything else you sent me. It's just so frustrating because my eyes are getting really irritated, so I can barely see, and do not want to trigger my uveitis. In 1993 I did change to saline implants, and they did a capsulectomy. There was no polyurethane foam to be found anywhere in the breast cavity, which means it all went somewhere else in my body. No silicone was found, so it doesn't look like I had any leaking.

The reason I changed to saline, besides all the alarming stories in the news, was because I had lumps under my arm and biopsies showed that there was polyurethane in my lymph glands. The plastic surgeon refused to completely take the implants out unless I could afford major reconstructive surgery (which I couldn't), because he said I would be so disfigured that I would want to kill myself. He might have been right, because at that time I was young and beautiful, had modeled, was a singer, had success in the business world, and my looks were a big part of my life. I have been rethinking that now, but I just don't have another surgery in me right now. It takes me years to recover every time I have surgery, and they are always major complications and set backs like gut issues, CFS, etc. Ironically my older sister still has her implants that were the same as mine, and she never got sick, but she was always healthier.

The only thing that showed up in my old hair analysis was benzene ring, which I was told was probably from the polyurethane foam. Benzene is a petrochemical, so I'm not sure how they are related. They didn't know if it would work for the benzene, but I did 20 EDTA IV's a few years later (mid-late 90's) and subsequent hair testing showed that surprisingly it took if all out.

Fortunately I only did 8 EDTA IV's this past year, spread out from April to August, before finding out they might not be good for me, and most of them were only at half the dose. We started off slow because weren't sure if I could tolerate it, and had to keep taking long breaks because of major side effects to my brain. Couldn't think straight and had a foggy head for months. FP is already helping with that. My stomach issues, which can be arsenic side effects, got a
lot better, and I started gaining weight for the first time in years (although, I've lost 5 pounds since stopping chelation, possibly from starting FP. Down to 97 lbs, which is still thin for 5' 1").

Sometimes when I'm writing a post, I see a little square pop up that has something in it that looks like an on/off switch. Do you know what that is for? I pressed on it and then later saw a box that said "start chat" (don't know if that was related to the on/off switch), but when I pressed it, nothing happened. Thanks for all your input!

 

[surfbaby]

I proceeded by asking my body. Here's a youtube 3 minute lesson, and another link in text.I'll post a couple links to simple self-testing below. I already had experience as a bodyworker, so self-testing has been a good fit for me, gaining confidence over time. But not everyone finds it as easy.

I did check on the 3 minute lesson and your other link too. I think I might like the double finger ring method more than the ring and index finger, but still can't get either to work consistently yet. You obviously can't hold the item you're testing for if you're using both hands to muscle test, so do you just ask yourself a question about the supplement, and how would you word it? I couldn't find the other posts for self testing below that you mentioned.

No, I wasn't decreasing. I intended to show you how I was increasing by adding the new amount to one of my 3 daily doses. My preference was to increase AM or midday, but sometimes my body wasn't ready for it until the evening.

I just meant that when I added up your 3 daily dose amounts for the day, the total I got didn't match the total you listed after you increased, so I got a little confused. I was probably just looking at it wrong, but I do understand what you were trying to show me, and it made sense.

Last night when I was really tired from cooking all day I tried increasing MB12 by 250mcg and MF by 100mcg. I actually felt better, a little more energy, and happy for no apparent reason. I'm going to wait till later today to decide whether to keep this increase, because some supplements affect me differently at different times of the day.

P.S. Sometimes when I'm writing a post, I see a little square pop up that has something in it that looks like an on/off switch. Do you know what that is for? I pressed on it and then later saw a box that said "start chat" (don't know if that was related to the on/off switch), but when I pressed it, nothing happened. Thanks for all your help!

 

[ahmo]

I did check on the 3 minute lesson and your other link too. I think I might like the double finger ring method more than the ring and index finger, but still can't get either to work consistently yet. You obviously can't hold the item you're testing for if you're using both hands to muscle test, so do you just ask yourself a question about the supplement, and how would you word it? I couldn't find the other posts for self testing below that you mentioned.

You could open the supplement bottle, make contact w/ a finger, while using the other fingers to form the circle. Once you get more rapport, you'll likely be able to often proceed by just saying the name of the supplement. That's how it is for me. This is a new skill, it will take time to develop trust and rapport, reliability.

I just meant that when I added up your 3 daily dose amounts for the day, the total I got didn't match the total you listed after you increased, so I got a little confused

No, it's me that's confused. I'm not a numerate person. I copied down a few numbers to give you an idesa, instead I made things more confusing. In fact, it could indeed be possible that I decreased a dose, if it was causing problems the day before. But generally this was not the case. I kept going forward.

Last night when I was really tired from cooking all day I tried increasing MB12 by 250mcg and MF by 100mcg. I actually felt better, a little more energy, and happy for no apparent reason.

. Sometimes when I'm writing a post, I see a little square pop up that has something in it that looks like an on/off switch. Do you know what that is for? I pressed on it and then later saw a box that said "start chat" (don't know if that was related to the on/off switch), but when I pressed it, nothing happened.

Sometimes there's a flashing box on the left side, saying that there's an alert or new conversation message, at top right of the page..

But it sounds like you're referring to the chat. I can't manage chat, so I keep mine turned off...see that little icon at bottom right, off the main body of the page. It can be toggled on or off. There's also a prompt for chat in the blue margin at bottom of page. (I label it bottom of page twice, when the chat icon is at very bottom of page, the blue margin is within page format. confused now??

Chats can be general, that is you can enter an ongoing group conversation. Or by invitation w/ you and someone else.

 

[surfbaby]

You could open the supplement bottle, make contact w/ a finger, while using the other fingers to form the circle. Once you get more rapport, you'll likely be able to often proceed by just saying the name of the supplement. That's how it is for me. This is a new skill, it will take time to develop trust and rapport, reliability.

After you open the bottle, do you have to make contact with one of the tablets/capsules or just the bottle itself? Can you also do it when you're holding one of the tablets/capsules in your hand? Do I ask myself if I'm ready to increase something and/or mention a dose, or should I just start with asking whether something will agree with me or not, or whether I will tolerate it?

But it sounds like you're referring to the chat. I can't manage chat, so I keep mine turned off...see that little icon at bottom right, off the main body of the page. It can be toggled on or off. There's also a prompt for chat in the blue margin at bottom of page. (I label it bottom of page twice, when the chat icon is at very bottom of page, the blue margin is within page format. confused now??

I actually was able to find what you were talking about! Everything is really small though, so can you confirm that chat is off when the black is to the left and the white. is to the right? Is that correct? I just wonder why the button sometimes pops up over the text when I'm writing a post. Maybe it's just a reminder that chat is available. I really don't think I can manage chat either.

 

[caledonia]

When you say more B12 then folate, I'm assuming you mean the total number of mcg or mg of MB12 for the day (or at each time of day that you take them?) should be more than folate? I get a little confused about this because I started FP with 1/4 tablets of each, so I often think of them in terms of percentages of a tablet rather than the mcg/mg, but I think I need to get used to thinking in terms of mcg/mg, as obviously the tablet strengths are varied.

Yes, the actual mcg.

Right now I'm taking 1,000 mcg Enzy MB12 3x/day = 3,000 mcg and 400mcg Solgar MF 3x/day = 1,200mcg. Does that sound like a fairly good ratio to you? It's so hard for me to be on the computer for very long because of my eyes, that I'm not sure the range of what other people have done, and just wonder if my dose is typical after a month doing FP. I did watch the YouTube about the muscle testing although I don't seem very good at it yet.

That ratio should be fine.

Last night when I was really tired from cooking all day I tried increasing MB12 by 250mcg and MF by 100mcg. I actually felt better, a little more energy, and happy for no apparent reason. I'm going to wait till later today to decide whether to keep this increase, because some supplements affect me differently at different times of the day.

For example, I have had a hard time tolerating AdB12 (tight chest--not exactly asthma but a little less air seems to come in, too speedy), but when I take it late at night when I'm really tired, it doesn't bother me as much. Though if I took too high of a dose, the next day I experienced slight increase of "asthma". After trying Country Life, Anabol Naturals, and Source Naturals, I discovered this week that I can tolerate Source Naturals the best, a bit more than a crumb (250-500 mcg) of SN almost daily now. Prior to that I was only able to handle taking CL (which I wanted to stop due to the folic acid) once or twice a week but in larger amounts (750mcg to 1,500mcg) late at night, but often had the breathing side effects the next day. Still trying to figure out if I should take it daily or once a twice a week. Do you have any opinion about this?

I don't like the sound of this. Maybe too much?

Also do you have any opinion about whether to take MF 30-60 minutes prior to MB12, or taking them at the same time? I have seen posts by Freddd for both ways, but his most recent one that I could find on 2/23/13 on page 1 of this thread, indicated 30-60 minutes prior was his preference: Freddd: "To heal you need the l-methyylfolate and MeCbl hitting the cells at the same time. If you take the folate 30-60 minutes before a sublingual, absorbtion and retention appears better, usually a small improvemnt, but then thats what I have done for 10 years, after the big ones are in place.It became a matter of gaining another few percentage points of improvement over and over again."

No opinion. I do mine around the same time for convenience.

 

[caledonia]

I did check on the 3 minute lesson and your other link too. I think I might like the double finger ring method more than the ring and index finger, but still can't get either to work consistently yet. You obviously can't hold the item you're testing for if you're using both hands to muscle test, so do you just ask yourself a question about the supplement, and how would you word it? I couldn't find the other posts for self testing below that you mentioned.

I make a circle with my left hand, and then use my index and middle finger on my right hand to swipe through the circle. If I just use my index finger, my finger joint starts to ache.

I either hug the bottle with one of my arms, or put it in my my lap if I'm seated. I've found that it works best if you hold your hands close to your core (belly button area), vs. away from your body.

P.S. Sometimes when I'm writing a post, I see a little square pop up that has something in it that looks like an on/off switch. Do you know what that is for? I pressed on it and then later saw a box that said "start chat" (don't know if that was related to the on/off switch), but when I pressed it, nothing happened. Thanks for all your help!

There is a chat thingy at the bottom right of the page. You can turn use the switch to hide it or show it.

 

[caledonia]

After you open the bottle, do you have to make contact with one of the tablets/capsules or just the bottle itself? Can you also do it when you're holding one of the tablets/capsules in your hand? Do I ask myself if I'm ready to increase something and/or mention a dose, or should I just start with asking whether something will agree with me or not, or whether I will tolerate it?

You don't actually have to open the bottle. This is really handy, because then you can return it unopened and get your money back if it tests bad. But if you're not sure, take out one of the pills and hold it in your hand while testing.

Let's say I was testing magnesium. I would say "this magnesium is good for me to take" and then get a yes/no on that. You can verify by saying "this magnesium is bad to take". You should get opposite answers.

Assuming I got a yes that it was good to take, then I would work on what is the right amount.

You can start with a guess, like 1 tsp. So say, "1 tsp". and get a yes or no. If it's a no, to expedite things, you can say, "greater than 1 tsp". If that's a no, then say "less than 1 tsp". That should be a yes.

Then you can work your way down from 1 tsp, with a series of guesses about amounts, like 3/4 tsp, 5/8 tsp, 1/2 tsp, etc. until you find the right amount and get a yes.

Or you can take 1/2 which is in the middle and do another "greater or lesser than" question and so on.

With experience, you can run through this all very quickly, much quicker than it takes me to explain it here.

 

[ahmo]

After you open the bottle, do you have to make contact with one of the tablets/capsules or just the bottle itself? Can you also do it when you're holding one of the tablets/capsules in your hand? Do I ask myself if I'm ready to increase something and/or mention a dose, or should I just start with asking whether something will agree with me or not, or whether I will tolerate it?

Caledonia's answered this.

can you confirm that chat is off when the black is to the left and the white. is to the right? Is that correct? I just wonder why the button sometimes pops up over the text when I'm writing a post. Maybe it's just a reminder that chat is available.

Yes, black to the left. I don't know why you're getting that button over the text. Here's a technical thread, in case you want to ask an expert.

 

[surfbaby]

Yes, black to the left. I don't know why you're getting that button over the text. Here's a technical thread, in case you want to ask an expert.

I'm not sure but it disappears after several seconds. I will check the technical thread if it becomes more of a problem. Trying to limit my time on the computer because my eyes have been flared up all week.

@caledonia Would also very much appreciate your input on these 3 questions:

1. Because I've had such a hard time maintaining my weight, I started making a dark chocolate snack that I really love. It contains only 3 ingredients: E.L.F. organic raw Indonesian cacao powder, Artisana organic raw coconut butter, and Artisana organic raw coconut oil. As long as I don't put too much cacao, it has agreed with me, helped me gain weight, and really decreased my fibromyalgia pain possibly more than anything else. It is the only thing I ingest that has any caffeine, and it does make me feel kind of good.

Meanwhile, I've had problems with my lips cracking and peeling since around 2009 after I started taking antiviral drugs and steroid eyedrops for the virus/uveitis (autoimmune disease) in my right eye. I've been calling it angular chellitis, but it's probably more accurately a lip fissure, as I don't get them in the corners of my mouth. I get them right under the high points of the bow in my upper lip, usually the left side but sometimes the right. When I smile or talk and my lips are peeling, it will crack open into a split there. Didn't realize this was a common CFS symptom, I thought it was from drugs or surgeries or who knows what.

Anyway when I eat too much of my dark chocolate snack, the lip issues (either peeling, a fissure, or both) can flare up a little (I did gradually start using less cacao in it.) So after reading that dark chocolate was very high in arginine, which could cause lysine deficiency, I started taking one 500mg capsule of lysine a day after my last (left) eye surgery a year ago, as that's when the lip thing flared up really badly again. Really seemed to help, so I continued taking it and noticed it would flare up when I would forget to take it.

I was about to order some more, but thought I better find out first if it is ok to take lysine while on FP? I did a quick search for lysine and did find a 10/1/15 post by
Changexpert under the thread: Why do we read react to glutathione precursors or other amino acid supplements? His post doesn't address what I'm asking, but he did mention lysine in a list of amino acids in meat and said: "Most people are fine with consuming meat, but have difficult times dealing with supplemental amino acid. My personal experience definitely reflects this."

I have had problems with some amino acids in the past, but the lysine seem to agree with me fine. I just want to make sure it doesn't interfere with FP, or is bad to take regularly for some reason.

2. Can you recommend any quick reference guide in this forum that I can look at to try to figure out any negative symptoms I might be getting each time I increase my MF and MB? I have seen various lists in regard to methyl trapping and paradoxical folate deficiency by symptoms and groups. I just wondered if you had any favorites that might help me figure out when I'm increasing too fast or too slow. I'm still at the place where I can't figure out if I need more or less MF or MB. I am definitely having symptoms, I just don't know which category they fall into.

Mostly I'm a little more fatigued than usual, but it's not that bad. I get the sense it's because my body is detoxing. Still having brain problems, but I had them probably worse before I started FP, especially since the chelation. Occasionally a little pain or stiffness, but it passes quickly.

The lip peeling flared up initially when I started FP, but has stopped. The left lip fissure also flared up and has healed intermittently, but keeps coming back, since I've been on FP. I wish I could figure out at which times it flares and heals because it does those cycles very quickly at times (sometimes in hours), and I'm sure it has something to do with my doses of MF. However all the peeling and dry flakes on my face from seborrhea that I've had for over a year has cleared up in the past week, and my hair loss has subsided greatly, but the skin on my fingers has been bothering me more lately. You can see why it's hard to figure out, unless maybe some things are healing ahead of other things.

3. Below is a quote from an ahmo post on February 21, 2015 that I came across by chance.

"I found Both B2 and then B6, as P5P, pushed my ammonia way up. P5P at levels I'd been taking for a year. When I quit, the ammonia cleared after 2-3 days."

When I take 1/4 capsule a day, my B-complex has 1.25mg of B2, 2.5mg of R5P, 2.5mg of B6, and 2.5 of P5P. It seems to agree with me OK, but can you tell me what symptoms to look for in case it pushes up my ammonia? I'm not sure what symptoms you get from ammonia. Thank you both for helping me so much!

 

[caledonia]

I'm not sure but it disappears after several seconds. I will check the technical thread if it becomes more of a problem. Trying to limit my time on the computer because my eyes have been flared up all week.

@caledonia Would also very much appreciate your input on these 3 questions:

1. Because I've had such a hard time maintaining my weight, I started making a dark chocolate snack that I really love. It contains only 3 ingredients: E.L.F. organic raw Indonesian cacao powder, Artisana organic raw coconut butter, and Artisana organic raw coconut oil. As long as I don't put too much cacao, it has agreed with me, helped me gain weight, and really decreased my fibromyalgia pain possibly more than anything else. It is the only thing I ingest that has any caffeine, and it does make me feel kind of good.

Meanwhile, I've had problems with my lips cracking and peeling since around 2009 after I started taking antiviral drugs and steroid eyedrops for the virus/uveitis (autoimmune disease) in my right eye. I've been calling it angular chellitis, but it's probably more accurately a lip fissure, as I don't get them in the corners of my mouth. I get them right under the high points of the bow in my upper lip, usually the left side but sometimes the right. When I smile or talk and my lips are peeling, it will crack open into a split there. Didn't realize this was a common CFS symptom, I thought it was from drugs or surgeries or who knows what.

Anyway when I eat too much of my dark chocolate snack, the lip issues (either peeling, a fissure, or both) can flare up a little (I did gradually start using less cacao in it.) So after reading that dark chocolate was very high in arginine, which could cause lysine deficiency, I started taking one 500mg capsule of lysine a day after my last (left) eye surgery a year ago, as that's when the lip thing flared up really badly again. Really seemed to help, so I continued taking it and noticed it would flare up when I would forget to take it.

I was about to order some more, but thought I better find out first if it is ok to take lysine while on FP? I did a quick search for lysine and did find a 10/1/15 post by
Changexpert under the thread: Why do we read react to glutathione precursors or other amino acid supplements? His post doesn't address what I'm asking, but he did mention lysine in a list of amino acids in meat and said: "Most people are fine with consuming meat, but have difficult times dealing with supplemental amino acid. My personal experience definitely reflects this."

I have had problems with some amino acids in the past, but the lysine seem to agree with me fine. I just want to make sure it doesn't interfere with FP, or is bad to take regularly for some reason.

In this thread (post #44), http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/poll-freddds-b-12-treatment-plan.3566/page-3 Freddd reports that lysine + methionine = carnitine. If you're doing the Freddd protocol, you will be taking carnitine. I don't know for sure, but it seems like that might possibly cause a problem.

You could possibly cut back on the amount of chocolate you use, or use chocolate which is not as dark. That would lessen the need for lysine.

2. Can you recommend any quick reference guide in this forum that I can look at to try to figure out any negative symptoms I might be getting each time I increase my MF and MB? I have seen various lists in regard to methyl trapping and paradoxical folate deficiency by symptoms and groups. I just wondered if you had any favorites that might help me figure out when I'm increasing too fast or too slow. I'm still at the place where I can't figure out if I need more or less MF or MB. I am definitely having symptoms, I just don't know which category they fall into.

Mostly I'm a little more fatigued than usual, but it's not that bad. I get the sense it's because my body is detoxing. Still having brain problems, but I had them probably worse before I started FP, especially since the chelation. Occasionally a little pain or stiffness, but it passes quickly.

The lip peeling flared up initially when I started FP, but has stopped. The left lip fissure also flared up and has healed intermittently, but keeps coming back, since I've been on FP. I wish I could figure out at which times it flares and heals because it does those cycles very quickly at times (sometimes in hours), and I'm sure it has something to do with my doses of MF. However all the peeling and dry flakes on my face from seborrhea that I've had for over a year has cleared up in the past week, and my hair loss has subsided greatly, but the skin on my fingers has been bothering me more lately. You can see why it's hard to figure out, unless maybe some things are healing ahead of other things.

I'm not really the best person to ask about this, as I have a completely different philosophy called Start Low and Go Slow.

At any rate, Ahmo has a blog post with some concise guides to Freddd's protocol: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/a-guide-to-freddds-protocol.1618/

I have a document called Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment linked in my signature which might come in handy, as well as the Start Low and Go Slow document.

3. Below is a quote from an ahmo post on February 21, 2015 that I came across by chance.

"I found Both B2 and then B6, as P5P, pushed my ammonia way up. P5P at levels I'd been taking for a year. When I quit, the ammonia cleared after 2-3 days."

When I take 1/4 capsule a day, my B-complex has 1.25mg of B2, 2.5mg of R5P, 2.5mg of B6, and 2.5 of P5P. It seems to agree with me OK, but can you tell me what symptoms to look for in case it pushes up my ammonia? I'm not sure what symptoms you get from ammonia. Thank you both for helping me so much!

I personally haven't had issues with ammonia. I think I would ask @ahmo about this.
Heartfixer says "too much ammonia (...depletes BH4, leading to insufficient dopamine and serotonin production)."

 

[surfbaby]

In this thread (post #44), http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/poll-freddds-b-12-treatment-plan.3566/page-3 Freddd reports that lysine + methionine = carnitine. If you're doing the Freddd protocol, you will be taking carnitine. I don't know for sure, but it seems like that might possibly cause a problem.

You could possibly cut back on the amount of chocolate you use, or use chocolate which is not as dark. That would lessen the need for lysine.

I have cut back by over 1/3 of the amount I used to use, but will try cutting back further. Although I hope that won't make my fibro pain increase. Will also try cutting back the lysine and see what happens, and see if the MF helps me heal better.

Thanks for the link to this thread by the way. I found some other posts that were useful.

At any rate, Ahmo has a blog post with some concise guides to Freddd's protocol: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/a-guide-to-freddds-protocol.1618/

I have a document called Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment linked in my signature which might come in handy, as well as the Start Low and Go Slow document.

I have been using ahmo's guide, as well as the guide on How I Recovered and sheclimber's guide. I will check out your Roadblocks doc. I did a lot of research in the beginning, but after starting the protocol I had so many new questions. Everything makes sense when you're reading it, but it's quite different than applying it after you start doing FP and having reactions. I realize that I really need to refresh myself on the basics. The situation with my eyesight and sensitivity to computer screen makes it so frustrating, because I am so limited in my ability to use the computer. I just hope if my eyes can continue to improve more from FP, and I don't flare my uveitis, I can somehow pull this.

I'm not really the best person to ask about this, as I have a completely different philosophy called Start Low and Go Slow.

I'm guessing from your start low and go slow philosophy, that you never got up to the CNS/CSF dosages? What is your philosophy on that? That part really scares me the most. I wonder if everyone has to go that high.

I also couldn't imagine putting that many Enzy's in my mouth. I'm already concerned about the amount of sugar (fructose) in it, and how that might affect my teeth long-term, and I think it irritates my gums sometimes, but that could be a healing thing. I don't tolerate sugars well, though the small amount in Enzy so far seems ok. Due to previous history of Candida, I don't consume any other sugars at all, except what might naturally occur in veggies (definitely can't eat fruit).

I read posts of people with the sugar concern switching to Country Life 5 mg when their dosages got higher (also the monetary factor), but Freddd still seems to favor Enzy for absorption. CL and all the other brands I've seen contain xylitol, which has bothered me in the past, but I could probably get used to it. I took MB12 injections years ago when I had the severe B12 deficiency, and it was hard to figure out the dosages--kind of a roller coaster ride. The hydroxy injections actually worked a lot better and made me feel great, but that is contraindicated in FP.

What type of MB12 do you take, and do you have any thoughts about how the Enzy might affect my teeth (and eventually possibly candida at higher doses)? It takes 45 minutes to over an hour to dissolve, and I do thoroughly rinse and gargle every time I take it. I also brush and floss twice a day.

 

[ahmo]

@surfbaby Your symptoms might differ from my symptoms. For me, ammonia made me feel high-strung, slightly breathless, squinty-eyed, light-headed. I eventually found that malic acid helped me a lot. (I'd initially used ornithine, arginine, citrulline(. If you want more about ammonia, here's the thread that started me on malic acid.

Re B12: I switched from sublingual to transdermal. I've also just started taking my B2 (FMN) the same way. No more pink gums and sweetners in my mouth. I crush the tablet, pour it onto a small blob of body lotion, and for my shcedule, let it dissolve overnight, but I'm sure it doesn't take so long. then rub into skin. With the B2, it's too messy, so I apply it to a cloth, wrap onto my arm.

I've found that I'm using about half of the amount of these vitamins when I take them transdermally.

 

[surfbaby]

@surfbaby Your symptoms might differ from my symptoms. For me, ammonia made me feel high-strung, slightly breathless, squinty-eyed, light-headed. I eventually found that malic acid helped me a lot. (I'd initially used ornithine, arginine, citrulline(. If you want more about ammonia, here's the thread that started me on malic acid.

Re B12: I switched from sublingual to transdermal. I've also just started taking my B2 (FMN) the same way. No more pink gums and sweetners in my mouth. I crush the tablet, pour it onto a small blob of body lotion, and for my shcedule, let it dissolve overnight, but I'm sure it doesn't take so long. then rub into skin. With the B2, it's too messy, so I apply it to a cloth, wrap onto my arm.

I've found that I'm using about half of the amount of these vitamins when I take them transdermally.

I might try the transdermal in the future, as I am so sensitive to anything on my skin. For now I think I better stay with where I'm at, since I'm still trying to figure out my symptoms. I think I will do what you did though and keep increasing my MF by 100 to 200mcg every day or two, then try to figure out the MB12 separately (and possibly as you did by increasing MB12 as necessary to reduce any over methylation). Does that sound like a good plan?

I have had problems with some amino acids in the past, but the lysine seem to agree with me fine. I just want to make sure it doesn't interfere with FP, or is bad to take regularly for some reason.

Also do you know if taking Lysine is ok with FP, as I asked you in Question #1 of my previous post, regarding taking lysine to counteract high arginine in a dark chocolate food I eat daily, and which has also been helping my lip fissures. I know that post was long but it was hard for me to explain the situation briefly (working on it).

Caledonia wasn't completely certain, but she posted: "Freddd reports that lysine + methionine = carnitine. If you're doing the Freddd protocol, you will be taking carnitine. I don't know for sure, but it seems like that might possibly cause a problem."

 

[ahmo]

Does that sound like a good plan?

 

[surfbaby]

@ahmo I am resending the post below to you because I think I posted it wrong. I wanted to make sure it was OK to take lysine daily. I searched lysine, but couldn't really find an answer in the forum. I think you take some amino acids separately like arginine, so thought you might know.

Here is that post:
Also do you know if taking Lysine is ok with FP, as I asked you in Question #1 of my previous post (#52 on this thread), regarding taking lysine to counteract high arginine in a dark chocolate food I eat daily, and which has also been helping my lip fissures. I know that post was long but it was hard for me to explain the situation briefly (working on it).

Caledonia wasn't completely certain, but she posted: "Freddd reports that lysine + methionine = carnitine. If you're doing the Freddd protocol, you will be taking carnitine. I don't know for sure, but it seems like that might possibly cause a problem."

What do you think?

 

[surfbaby]

@ahmo Now that I've reached out more as you suggested, and getting so many replies, can you please teach me a fast way to sort through the replies I've gotten so I can re-access the important ones? Or should I just save them on my email? Do you have a system for that?

My eyes are so blurry now from being online more than I have been in many years, hard to find things. Probably should cut back on the forum, but I feel like I'm on a roll now and I don't want to stop my momentum! I will keep going as long as I can deal with it, as long as I hopefully don't trigger my uveitis. That would be a huge setback.

Been having more moments of feeling good, including feeling more motivated about a few things I've avoided for a long time. Occasionally I'll have great energy and then all of a sudden it just feels like the bottom drops out and I have nothing. That happened to me at Costco and it was a little scary. Any ideas of what that could be?

 

[ahmo]

can you please teach me a fast way to sort through the replies I've gotten so I can re-access the important ones? Or should I just save them on my email? Do you have a system for that?

Good job highlighting your question in bold.

I try to keep all my replies in forum only, rather than email. If you're *watching* a thread, you get a prompt to choose email alert, I choose the other option. That gives you notices at top right of page, under Alerts.
If you mouse over your avatar, you'll find alert preference, which allows you many choices.

If what you want is to re-access important ones, then you might tag/highlight them in your email, which is the opposite of what I've just outlined, re no email. I have a samll application that's a desktop notebook. This is where I copy info for later reference. I'm using a delightful little $5 Growly.com program, Mac only.

Occasionally I'll have great energy and then all of a sudden it just feels like the bottom drops out and I have nothing. That happened to me at Costco and it was a little scary. Any ideas of what that could be?

Other than reaching your limit, the thought that first occurs to me is low potassium. I had no idea, for years, that this was the cause to my nearly passing out many times, when out in the world.