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What is in red meat, eggs, cheese, but not in chicken?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by NilaJones, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Hi folks :). I have been 'hiding' from the forum because it overwhelms me (so much info :)) but am doing better thanks to methylation -- which means thanks to you all!

    However, I am craving something that is in these foods (and not satisfied by chicken). It would be helpful if I could supplement whatever it is, because my cholesterol was already high when I was NOT eating them, and I expect the need will get greater with further methylation.

    Any ideas? Maybe some amino acid? Or something else? I don't think it's lipids, since I take fish oil and lecithin and other stuff. I HAVE been craving oils, and eating them (mainly olive oil), but this is different.

    Thanks, always :).
     
  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Interesting question! The only thing I can think of is there might be more saturated fats in the things you're craving. I'm curious: how do you know your craving is caused by physiological need?
     
  3. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Well, it's a combination of two things:

    1. I don't normally have much interest in eating red meat, ever since I was a kid. And that's the only thing I am actually craving. The eggs and cheese work (with sign #2, which I will get to in a sec), but I don't have the feeling of, 'Oh, I want to eat some!'

    Of course, one could argue that the b12 is affecting my brain in some way that makes me have a desire for red meat...

    2. This might be a little disgusting, sorry.

    My lips tend to be a bit dry and chapped (always, not just with methylation). When I don't eat enough from animal protein sources, I have this intense desire to peel off the chapped skin. I am not normally ever OCD about anything, BTW. Then I eat some animal protein and I'm fine. This has been true of me for decades, and I am used to watching for the sign, since I usually like to eat mostly vegie.

    Normally, chicken works for this, just as well as eggs, cheese, and red meat do. But not since I started b12.

    I suppose I could ask, instead, how is b12 blocking absorption of something in chicken.

    Now, here's a twist: I ate a large (for me, about 1/6lb) serving of hamburger a couple hours ago and it is NOT working. I don't think this has ever happened in my life.

    Mucking about with my biochemistry sure is weird.

    Ideas, anyone?

    --
     
    helen1 likes this.
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    It wont be an amino acid, since these all have balanced proteins. It could indeed be lipids - you might have ruled those out prematurely. Fish oil is omega-3, and will not be very present in quantity in any of these foods. Chicken is higher in monounsaturated fat than the others. All of your preferred options have more saturated fat as has been noted. One that has not been discussed is arachidonic acid. Chapped lips and peeling skin can be a sign of arachidonic acid deficiency. Organ meats are high in arachidonic acid. Does a small serve of something like liver (which I hate, so understand if you do) satisfy you even more? Of course liver will also contain natural factors that support B12 and other metabolism. Chicken does have some arachidonic acid, but not as much as beef, or egg yolks (its not in white) or full fat dairy.
     
    helen1 likes this.
  5. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Thanks!

    The arachidonic acid idea is sounding very plausible to me. I do have chronically dry skin, and with eggs, the yolks especially appeal to me. I will do some googling :).
     
  6. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    And thank YOU very much, Helen :). I forget my manners in this brain fog!
     
  7. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Nila,
    Have you tried creatine? It's high in beef and pork but not poultry. It's easy to supplement, powder is cheaper, and I don't find any difference in brands. A teaspoon of powder is about what you'd get eating 3-4 ounces of beef, so it's hard to overdose.
    I'll tell you my story about it later.
    EDIT:
    Ok, so here's my story:
    1998, I had an office mate who used to take creatine before heading to the gym at the end of the day. I thought nothing of it until my blood tests showed I was below normal in creatinine, which is used up creatine. At the time, I was participating in a fitness program where you logged how many minutes you spent exercising every day, and if everyone on your team did at least 20 minutes three times that week, your team was entered in a drawing for t-shirts or something. So, I had this trail, up one canyon, across a ridge, and down another canyon, that reliably took 100 minutes - only a minute or so variation in the many times I'd done it. When I saw I was low in creatinine, I took creatine, a teaspoon 2 or 3 times a day. After two and a half days, I was back on the trail. I did it in 88 minutes. I did it again on the 5th day, 82 minutes. It made a huge difference in my strength and stamina.
    Crit
     
    alex3619 likes this.
  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    There's another thing that meat has that poultry doesn't: carnosine. Poultry has anserine instead. But as both of them get turned into beta-alanine, I can't see how that would be what you're craving.
     
  9. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Wow, thanks, critterina (And hi!). I wonder if this is why my muscles ache at the end of the day since starting methylation?
     
    Critterina likes this.
  10. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Hi Nila,

    Good to see you back! I was starting to wonder about not seeing you - on vacation or something! :p

    I couldn't say about the muscle aches. I had bad muscle aches at night after I stopped using dairy, but it seems to have been due to muscle wasting from not digesting the animal protein I was eating plenty of, to replace the dairy. BCAAs helped me. But I'm guessing what's causing yours is probably different.
     
  11. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Not exactly :). My being away was partly because I have been feeling better and doing more stuff offline, but mainly because my computer has a very hard time with this site, which it makes it very mentally difficult to navigate.

    Branched chain amino acids?
     
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  12. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Yeah, go figure. The day I started led to the first night I slept well. When I ran out, I didn't go buy more and the insomnia and thigh pain returned that night. A week later I bought more and presto! I was OK again.
     
  13. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Hmm... I don't have insomnia, but my thighs sure hurt! Have you read up on the neurotoxicity issue with BCAAs that wikipedia mentions? What's the deal?

    BTW, this convo inspired me to check out the tech support forum for possible solutions to my site problems. I am now trying out the mobile version of the site. It is still very visually cluttered, but at least word wrap works, and I can see who authored each post. AFACT, there is no chat. And, in theory, it should be more lightweight...
     
    Critterina likes this.
  14. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Hmmm... the mobile version doesn't display sig files; that's unfortunate. They do add a LOT of clutter, but also a lot of useful info. What they should be is links, IMO.
     
  15. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    No, and my search didn't come up with it. Do you have a link?
    Re: BCAAs, It was my nurse practitioner who told me to take them based on my amino acid panel results, particularly the very high 3-methylhistidine and others that corroborated muscle wasting. Because every lab and reference range is different, I always just compute the percentage of the reference range. Here are my lab results (January, April, July):

    Isoleucine: 47%, 30%, 27%
    Leucine: 33%, 26%, 13%
    Lysine: 81%, 62%, 40%
    Glutamine (also in the pills): 118%, 39%, 43%
    3-methylhistidine: 114%, 86%, below normal in July: <1 with reference range of 2-9

    You can see that I'm nowhere near the upper limits of the reference range, so I'm not really afraid of neurotoxicity. I'm not sure why the 3-methylhistidine dropped so low, but I was taking gobs of NAC from May to July (it now accounts for most of my out-of-range lab results in July, that or low folate).

    What I'm considering now is the possibility of histamine intolerance. Those pseudo-allergic reactions that test negative for allergies on skin and serum tests, but block up my nose, reduce my lung capacity to 80%, and make my gut swell. When I was on the NAC, a supplement on the forbidden list for histamine intolerance, I was miserable, but after the July test, I did a low sulfur diet and quit the sulfur supplements. I got much better for a week. Then I went back to a regular (dairy-free, oat-free, tomato, spinach, pepper, beer, and wine-free) diet, and the stuff started coming back. I'm going to see if a low-histamine diet helps. Low sulfur is almost impossible (no animal protein, no true grains, no dairy, soy, or eggs, and no half the veggies I can eat), and given my poor protein-absorption, I was afraid to stay on it too long. But it would have been low histamine. Wish me luck!
     
  16. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    all the best to you!

    how do you get test like those? I have a restricted diet like this and think I am having wasting but it doesn't show on limited tests I have done so far.
     
    Critterina likes this.
  17. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    My nurse practitioner orders them and I go to the local Quest Diagnostics laboratory (Sonora Quest). There is also a Metametrix test that you could probably get through a compounding pharmacy.

    See if this link works for the interpretive guide: http://www.metametrix.com/files/test-menu/interpretive-guides/Amino-Acids-IG.pdf
     
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  18. cph13

    cph13 Senior Member

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    willow J....it's a pleasure to meet you. I get my amino acid test @Quest Diagnostic...if U have insurance, with the proper diagnostic codes it is covered. Check with your PCP. Mine writes the script and I usually figure out what I need or not. Do NOT change from lab to lab. esp. for this test. I've been told and have experienced that some lab companies (who don't do this test often) give off the wall levels. I went to an infectious disease dr. because I was so scared some years back. Be well
     
    WillowJ likes this.
  19. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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  20. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I keep thinking I will come back to this post when I am having a clearheaded day, but I have not had one yet :/. I have never heard of histamine intolerance. Care to give a rundown? I know, I know, I should just google ;). I have high urine methylhistamine, but I don't know what that means, either...

    I did find a gift card I had forgotten, about, so I used it to order some BCAAs and some creatine, and will give both a try :). I am also taking a little time off b12 because it was feeling like too much.
     
    Critterina likes this.

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