1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The Pathway to Prevention (P2P) for ME/CFS: A Dangerous Process
Gabby Klein gives an overview of the P2P process, shedding light on the pitfalls with advice as to what we can do in protest ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

What has helped more with your sleep?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Beyond, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. seaflower

    seaflower

    Messages:
    44
    Likes:
    18
    I will have to look another time. I'm in an NAC induced haze--felt sort of ok today but almost fell asleep at 6pm. Seems now that I'm taking NAC, I get tired really early. TIRED, the normal people's kind of tired, not the CFS kind of tired. :) The amount of Glycine = what they used in a Japanese study .http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328957/ 3 Grams, I think. I took it to get a deeper sleep--and it did that plus curing fibromyalgia. I have not needed it again. Of course you take it away from food.

    I will have to read and take notes tomorrow when I am more awake. Looks like a lot of good info up there in previous posts.
  2. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    923
    Likes:
    514
    Murcia, Spain
    I guess we include Allyson in the methylation people then. I found 6 of them here and in prohealth stating better or completely restored sleep with methylation. It is in my mind. However none of these complained of fragmented sleep, just of sleep onset insomnia and the proverbial unrefreshing sleep.

    @WoolPipi I would put my eggs in the sympathetic dominance basket. http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...problems-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-finally/ Anyhow I will be curing my adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism in the next year or two (I am realistic) so we will know. Adrenal fatigue causes and is caused by sympathetic dominance!
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  3. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,455
    Likes:
    1,686
    East Coast, USA
    That link provides this information about previous studies:

    Previously, we showed the effects of glycine on sleep quality in humans who had continuously complained about their sleep quality (Inagawa et al., 2006a,b; Yamadera et al., 2007). In these studies, ingestion of 3[​IMG]g glycine was found to improve subjective sleep quality (Inagawa et al., 2006a) and shorten sleep latency (Yamadera et al., 2007)

    Your memory is pretty good!
    Izola likes this.
  4. seaflower

    seaflower

    Messages:
    44
    Likes:
    18
    hahahaha. Thanks. That was a major breakthrough for me after all these years so maybe that's why I remembered it right away. I was getting physical therapy in a heated pool for the fibro and it would have worked but Glycine worked in three days and it (partly) got at the root of the problem.

    I have submitted a saliva sample to 23andMe for DNA testing (mainly for family history) and I read somewhere that you can also use the results to get your amino acid levels tested online. I'm extremely interested in aa because of the great results so far. Many years ago some drs did put me on L-methionine but it did nothing. Either it was the wrong amino acid for me or I didn't have the precursors or whatever to be able to use it. I still don't know.

    I talked about amino acids to my regular dr on Friday and he was clueless. I am also extremely interested in methylation. I was damaged by petroleum fumes from a faulty furnace and from mold--horrible effects that I didn't think I would live through. I already HAD the insomnia but this pushed me over the edge into chemical sensitivity and allergies to everything. Wouldn't it be wonderful to reverse our symptoms and be well! :) Oh--Last night with 600mg NAC plus 1/2 mg clonopin nothing happened. With another 600mg NAC and some aspirin (toothache and for some reason aspirin helps me sleep) I got a real night's sleep. Sleep. A beautiful word.
    Beyond and WoolPippi like this.
  5. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,455
    Likes:
    1,686
    East Coast, USA
    Ooh, this is good to know. It's safe to increase the NAC to see if a higher dose works? I tested 600mg of the time release Jarrow last night, without glycine, and still woke up 5-6 times. I thought tonight I'd add 3 grams of glycine and see what happens. If that doesn't help, I could add another NAC?
  6. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    923
    Likes:
    514
    Murcia, Spain
    Well for me melatonin sublingual, pharmagaba and glutathione reduced are still doing the trick. Falling asleep in 15 minutes is pretty priceless ;) Still wake up several times and feel like shit at mornings though but an improvement is an improvement. I feel shitty but way less shitty than when I was sleeping at 4 AM. NAC helps too.

    When you are this ill is hard to notice improvement, the most I feel is like some weight is lifted of my shoulders. I do no longer have to be in my bed awake. Yeah sure, I feel better but not enough to celebrate only to sigh with relief after such a long fight to improve anything. These supplements don´t even touch wakings and deepness of sleep, but they cannot do what adrenal and thyroid hormones do anyway.
    Izola likes this.
  7. seaflower

    seaflower

    Messages:
    44
    Likes:
    18
    Melatonin works for some people but I've tried it a few times over the years and it didn't do anything. I tried Theonine=nothing, valerian=nothing, passionflower=nothing. and more. I took them for weeks sometimes, if the directions on different websites and from different people said so.

    The first thing that ever helped at all was Glycine by getting me into a deep sleep--but actually the deeper sleep only made me feel slightly better. The fact that it cured my horrible fibro was a lot better.

    Now, with the NAC, I don't seem to know what I'm doing right or wrong. Yesterday, I was dead tired all day even after two doses of NAC--at bedtime and during the night. It just didn't work. But around 5pm I had to sleep. I have never taken naps during the day or even any time before bedtime. I put it off until about 7 pm and slept until 11pm, no clonopin or anything. Delayed results?

    At midnight I figured I'd better take 1/2 clonopin just so I won't have some bad side effect from simply stopping it. Slept all night and can't even remember if I took anymore NAC.

    I'm taking an adrenal support homeopathic drops thing that I got in the health food store. And Ashwangda. And lots of vitamin C. The NAC is making me more hopeful that there can be an end to the endless insomnia and the clonopin. It probably isn't enough in and of itself but to have actually slept wIthOUT clonopin after all these years?
    madietodd likes this.
  8. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

    Messages:
    176
    Likes:
    332
    Netherlands
    I slept through the night for 3 nights in a row now :eek:

    During the day I upped my Magnesium, selenium and molybdelum and tried to be mentally relaxed all day. At night I took a big pil of Valerian and a big dose of Progesteron with a bit of coconut oil. And a Hotwaterbottle to bed (I usually get so very cold when just in bed, my knees are like ice.) and no fluid intake after 7 at night to prevent the need to pee. Also, my gut seems finally to feel better. And I feel safe in bed/house/life. These are all the influences I can think off.

    I still wake up after five hours but I take a small milk sugar pill, turn over and drift off again. I make sure not to start thinking, I gently push the thoughts away and think about knitting patterns instead.

    This sleeping is eating into my research reading time :D
    (next I'm trying nac and 5htp)
    madietodd, Valentijn and Beyond like this.
  9. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    923
    Likes:
    514
    Murcia, Spain
    Tonight I also slept trough the night. I think I woke up at the 5 hours mark but not sure. I slept more than 8 hours! When I woke up last time I was thinking "Now I will look at the watch and it will be 5 AM or something" It was not! It was 8.45 AM :cool:
    Izola, maryb, madietodd and 4 others like this.
  10. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes:
    1,883
    Midwest, USA
    Can you get electric mattress pads in the Netherlands? I really like mine. I turn in on med. high before I go to bed and put my pajamas under the covers to get warm. When I go to bed I turn it to med. low. I still use two or three blankets. This keeps me warm, but not hot.
    Izola likes this.
  11. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,520
    Likes:
    4,132
    Cornwall, UK
    I go to bed wearing as many day clothes as I need to. As I warm up, I take clothes off. If I get cold again, I put more on! Same as during the day.

    I only take all my day clothes off at night when the weather is warm. Now I have a conservatory, I sleep in there if it is too hot upstairs.

    I can't see any reason to let myself get too hot or too cold.

    Great to hear that you had a good night's sleep at last, @Beyond. :)
    rosie26 and Beyond like this.
  12. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

    Messages:
    839
    Likes:
    168
    Wyoming
    GABA, Melatonin and Ashwaghanda.
    ckment and Beyond like this.
  13. seaflower

    seaflower

    Messages:
    44
    Likes:
    18
    Well,last night was Hell. I took two NACs and they didn't do a thing. I tried some Glycine and that did nothing either. Pretty soon I felt sick and was aching all over. Heart pounding. Could not sleep at all. I had taken 1/2 clonopin so I wouldn't get withdrawal but maybe this was withdrawal. It was awful.

    After all night with no sleep I took more magnesium and a clonopin and did sleep during the day.

    There is more to this, much more than I can know. It's not simply -- take NAC and you will sleep. NAC worked the first few nights and at odd times it would kick in, but now it's ineffective. I wonder if I have depleted something else by using it. I wish I had a naturalpath or some kind of expert to help me.
    Beyond likes this.
  14. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

    Messages:
    176
    Likes:
    332
    Netherlands
    aww, I broke the spell :(
    Perhaps because of the spoons of mustard I ate with dinner... they exite the neurons? Also had a lot of liqourice :whistle:
  15. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes:
    1,883
    Midwest, USA
    Clonopin needs to be reduced very slowly and carefully. If you have been taking a whole clonopin, dropping to 1/2 (50% reduction) is to much of a reduction.
    zzz and Beyond like this.
  16. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    923
    Likes:
    514
    Murcia, Spain
    I am still getting to sleep very soon. Hooray! Last night I had a dream so detailed and lucid that when I woke up I was thinking about it like a memory! Other than that my sleep is still pretty shitty and I woke up at the 5 hours mark again, had to take 2 NAC´s and wait 30 minutes to fall asleep again.

    Fixing sleep completely will take years, I am realistic, because of all the systems involved. But this was a great step forward.
  17. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

    Messages:
    176
    Likes:
    332
    Netherlands
    I'm so sorry for your hellish nights.

    I notice my NACpills have a lot of Molybdenum in it, so this is probably a co-factor. I already supplement Molybdenum separately and feel better because of it. Could this be something for you? I'm not a naturapath by any stretch!

    dr.Wiki says: "In humans, four enzymes depend on molybdenum: sulfite oxidase, xanthine oxidoreductase, aldehyde oxidase, and mitochondrial amidoxime reductase.[75] People severely deficient in molybdenum have poorly functioning sulfite oxidase and are prone to toxic reactions to sulfites in foods.[76][77]"
    It also sheds Copper from the body. You can get too much so be careful.
  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

    Messages:
    3,520
    Likes:
    4,132
    Cornwall, UK
    Glad you're feeling positive. I improved my sleep within months on the leaky-gut diet, having had difficulty sleeping for all my life as far as I can remember. I am 60! I have also had ME for 18 years. So hopefully your sleep will improve faster than you expect.
  19. seaflower

    seaflower

    Messages:
    44
    Likes:
    18
    Many years ago when I still had a good dr, I was found to be very deficient in molybdenum. Maybe this is a clue as to what a lot of us are deficient in. I still take it.
  20. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    231
    Likes:
    6
    klonopin seems to help my sleep, central apneas a lot maybe combined with GABA. it's supposed to modulate allosterically the GABA alpha receptor, maybe increase GABA levels? I ordered some diamox since the asv isn't curing me or is very slowly working. I also started progesterone as a male and hope that will increase stage 4 sleep, there are other drugs that may help that.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page