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What has helped more with your sleep?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Beyond, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    what does doxepine do? can it help sleep apnea? apnea causes terrible fog and exhaustion. I've tried remeron, trazodone but they don't really help

    I noticed too the gabapentin helps nausea a lot maybe. I tried ambien and sonata but they just aren't as effective though they work for sleep apnea, central apnea which is a complex disease maybe due to degeneration of neurons in the brainstem
    I think you have to cut out all the breads, milk, cheese, spicy foods, soda, sugar to be safe. So I guess it leaves a paleo diet like meats and veggies only. so its terrible to take glutamine then if you have a sleep disorder?
    they've tested klonopin in studies and it reduces central apneas
    I just woke up one day and I couldn't sleep, I still can't sleep on a computer ventilator I need the drugs to rest for some reason?
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  2. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    I hope it's clear I do not think "gluten = sleep problem". That's way too simple.

    I do think neurotransmitters are at the base of our sleep disorders. Neurotransmitters and the brains' stress reaction (HPA-axis; amygdala, Fight or Flight. All with bodily causes, nothing psychological.)
    Beyond and Sparrowhawk like this.
  3. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Yes! Strongly agree with you up to the point where I have also noticed that external stressors (like fumes, construction noise all day next door) actually do seem to increase my neuroinflammation, associated nerve system issues, and leading to problems gearing down enough to sleep.
  4. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I have certainly benefited from a palaeo-ish diet, AND I take glutamine which helps heal leaky gut. I think my leaky gut was at the root of most of my symptoms, including anxiety and insomnia, and I sleep much better now as long as I keep eating the right diet and get my supplement regime right (and avoid overexertion, as that causes leaky gut too). I still take mild sedatives for sleep, rotating things like melatonin, paracetamol-and-codeine and sedating antihistamines. Rotating drugs reduces the risk of tolerance and addiction.
    WoolPippi, Beyond and heapsreal like this.
  5. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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      • Medications. Certain medications, such as acetazolamide (Diamox) or theophylline (Theo-24, Theochron, others), have been used to stimulate breathing in people with central sleep apnea.

        Doctors may prescribe medications to help your breathing as you sleep if you can't take positive airway pressure. Also, some doctors prescribe medications to prevent central sleep apnea in high altitude.

    • Treatments and drugs
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    @physicsstudent13 doxepin is a tricyclic antidepressant which is sedating with its actions mostly through its antihistamine actions.

    I agree with what's already been said, many of us need to swap and rotate the crap out of a few meds that we can find that are helpful.
    physicsstudent13 likes this.
  7. Allyson

    Allyson *****

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    I hear that foods high in FODMAPS deplete L tryptophan -

    los FODMAPS diet helps IBS
    wheat is I think high FODMAPS

    tryptophan helps me sleep

    SOunds logical to me

    ALly
  8. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Well I havenĀ“t improved dramatically my sleep or social anxiety from the leaky gut diet and supplements but at least now I digest pretty well. It is a long process and other factors need repair, like the HPA axis or the whole brain lol you have to retrain it with meditation, supps, lifestyle changes etc
  9. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    yes I agree, I'm on klonopin and gabapentin. do you have sleep apnea and take doxepin for it? I have some neurological problem that stops me from breathing and plummets my O2 to 70%. I'm hoping prazosin will arrive soon and it might help increase REM sleep.
    but I've had dreams and really bad apneas also so it seems like REM sleep is unrelated to severity of sleep apnea
  10. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    anybody try Sleep Restriction Therapy for better sleep?

    you'd need a bit of health to do so unfortunately but results for sleep quality improvement are good says my doctor (80%!)
  11. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Be very careful with that. I'm pretty sure that was one of the triggers for my descent into this illness. It's a horrible, exhausting 'therapy'.
  12. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    It appears to be basically the same as 'sleep hygiene' as recommended in the UK, based, as far as I can ascertain, on little or no evidence.

    I think that it is especially inappropriate in ME, as it simply creates additional work, physical and mental stress and further loss of sleep. I very much doubt if it will help many, if any, sufferers.

    The 'sleep hygiene' version also includes restricting computer/screen time and avoiding doing anything in bed except sleeping. I used to find it very beneficial to read, listen to the radio or watch a kaleidoscopic video in bed to get me off to sleep. Without such distractions I just had that horrible thing of being unable to switch my brain off, and worrying.

    Just seems to me like more bogus 'expertise'.
    SDSue, Mij, NK17 and 2 others like this.
  13. Sinclair

    Sinclair

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    Amitriptiline 12,5....helps with pain as well
    or
    Nervoheel, a German homeopatic stuff
  14. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    While I don't know anything about sleep restriction therapy, I don't find sleep hygiene to be a bogus approach. It's worth trying. When nothing else worked (melatonin, etc.) just making sure I went to bed at 8:30 (with at least an hour wind-down and no screens/excitement, blackout shades, meditation, counting the breath) has taken me from months of terrible or no sleep to relatively regular sleep (to at least 3-5am most days). For me it was all about getting my body out of fight or flight, letting my adrenals calm down. On days when I don't do that routine, or am too amped up due to events (a trip out of the house) I can't sleep -- same issue as before.

    I'm also learning what I eat can affect how well or badly I sleep. Not just about having enough glucose to get through the night, but also whether the food is high thiol.
  15. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I tend to go to bed at about the same time every night too, and also wind down - because I feel I need to (I'm tired) rather than because I am deliberately following a recommended pattern. But I've been doing this for years, so it hasn't made the difference between good sleep and bad sleep - other things - notably diet and supplements - have, although I still have a few bad nights which I am fairly sure are due to mineral depletion following over-exertion.

    Do you avoid thiol or is it something that benefits you?
  16. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Hrmmm, I need to think about mineral depletion -- that's a good point. I do topical magnesium oil every night, but some times it seems to help and some nights it seems to overstimulate me. I have not been able to discern what factors affect that, but perhaps other things are out of balance at that point. Thanks.

    I'm learning that the days where I eat things like lentils/collards (or more than a few tablespoons) I have a harder time getting to sleep than not. That can include things like muscle fasciculations or adrenal jags. I can't go too low thiol, however, as eggs are fundamental to my diet. I have about nine things that I can eat.
  17. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    That's funny - I seem to be much better overall when I eat more cabbage! It seems to be especially beneficial for my gut, which I think is at the root of how well I am (or not) generally.
  18. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    That squares with my understanding that some folks do worse with Thoils and some better. Just have to figure out which you are and go with it!
    MeSci likes this.
  19. Singout

    Singout

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    I tried a process that is recommended by Fred Friedberg, similar but not as rigid as the sleep restriction therapy in @WoolPippi 's link. I don't think it helped me, but I also don't think I tried it for many nights. It's hard for me because my OI makes me feel tired when sitting up, so I'd get out of bed awake, sit in the LR and meditate and get "tired," then go back to bed and be awake again. I've also been trying what @Sparrowhawk recommends, and find it somewhat helpful.

    Also use melatonin, clonazepam, and zolpidem on different nights. Melatonin seems to give me vivid (but not usually bad) dreams.

    Lots more to learn!
  20. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    For the OI, I've been having success with just lots of celtic sea salt on my food. Doesn't completely solve it but it helps!
    Singout and Sushi like this.

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