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What Happened in the early eighties?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by justinreilly, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    What do people think about outbreaks v. sporadic infection and the boom in incidence in the early eigthies. It seemed there was some pathogen that was quite contagious causing outbreaks every year or so since the thirties or whenever. It would hit 100 or 200 hospital staff for example and then be gone like Keyser Soze. Then in around 1983 the numbers really headed north quickly and it seems like most of the infections aren't clusters, they're sporadic. Ie it is not as contagious at any one point in time, but it spreads further and infects many, many more people. At the same time outbreaks seemed to go up too: Lake Tahoe, Lyndonville, Miami, North Carolina (?), Rhode Island (?), several more listed on p.328 osler's web. In Osler's Web, Walter Gunn said CDC was getting at least 10 reports of outbreaks from doctors a year in the late 80s and early nineties and CDC only pretended to investigate even two of them. And perhaps some outbreaks were not noticed as such as the disease became common.

    Do you think that a cluster strain of a pathogen somehow got more virulent to cause more clusters, or a co-factor was introduced that facilitated this? And do you think a new strain emerged that caused sporadic cases and resulted in the boom in incidence? or was there always a sporadic strain and some cofactor made facilitated it's virulence?
  2. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    I mull this over, too, and I'm not sure.

    In at least one instance, it was polio (the LA General Hospital, I think it was, it was documented that everyone who got the Disease walked through the polio ward). Also in the Royal Free it may have been Polio, which may have been why they had more common paralysis and spinal cord inflammation (as I understand it we still all have encephalitis or brain inflammation, but not necessarily all of us encephalomyelitis or brain and spinal cord inflammation).

    But there's also the fact that we don't get diagnosed right away. Not even allowed to diagnose until it has persisted for 6 months, but many of us aren't diagnosed for years. It's very hard to notice an outbreak when you don't diagnose promptly, so it's entirely possible that we have outbreaks which are missed.
  3. Doogle

    Doogle Senior Member

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    Dr Cheney has said he believes the cofactor in the early eighties was HIV.
  4. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    and I guess I'm not answering eighties... General Hospital and Royal Free were much earlier... I was just talking why sporadic versis outbreak pattern in general
  5. Crappy

    Crappy Senior Member

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    Two Drs. directed me to the book, Lab 257 about Plum Island NY, close to Lyme, CT.
    http://www.amazon.com/Lab-257-Distu...X4I4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1298858430&sr=8-2

    The book makes some interesting points; the time line reaches back before WWI. Hitler expanded biological warfare development, and the U.S. government was stupid enough to continue it.

    The book gives a history of events. Basically the key is, before about 1950 if you got Lyme or any other infection, that one pathogen was all your immune system had to fight. After the middle of the last century; the government had been expeirmenting with making infectious organisms more disableing. One way they devised, was to make pathogens "piggyback" and carry multiple infectants at once. Instead of one organism docking in you (as pre 1950), now you had a school bus unloading a number of infections into you, which made you too sick to physically fight in battle for an extended length of time (easy to control or defeat/unable to do for themselves; sound familiar?). A concept illustrated well in a documentary I recommend, http://www.underourskin.com/ I dont think any of us here have one pathogen in us. We have CMV, HHV6, HHV7, XMRV, various bacteria and fungi, etc Which confounds doctors, they can barely help you if you have a Strep. Infection.

    If true, it makes perfect sense why our government is trying to avoid any responsibility or recognition for what has happened to us; they are liable for the damage.

    The governments denial would be totally in character considering their behavior when they have been responsible for other catastrophes. (Which makes me even more convinced they are responsible for the whole thing!) But we will never know the truth.

    P.S. It is very concerning that the U. S. Gov. proved completely incompetent at containing the pathogens at Plum Island; and now they are working on opening a new Biological Warfare Lab in the heart of the U.S. with the University of Kansas near Manhattan, KS. (Those infected and uninfected should all be very afraid!)
    We can burn the globe many times over with Nuclear Incineration, why do we need to play with infectious agents? haven't our governments done enough damage? The money they are spending on the new lab should be paid to all of us for the damage they have caused!
  6. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    BSE epidemic.
  7. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Interesting points, all.

    do you know where he talks about that? some place on his website? How would HIV impact the situation?

    lansbergen, how would BSE cause a change in the landscape?
  8. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Bovine Spongiform Encephalwhatever?
  9. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

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    The files themselves...

    The National Archives - Item reference FD 23/4553/1


    My opinion? This information is being kept at the level of a state secret. It seems quite possible that it could be related to some biological warfare program.
  10. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    1) What they had back then may not have been ME, could have been some form of polio or polio-consequence?
    or, polio triggered ME and caused it's own unqiue ADDITIONAL issues form the polio.
    very hard to tell.

    2) What if ME is triggered by polio vaccinations? historically there have been a huge amount of problems with such and still are in developing countries where they test new versions

    3) Note also that "triggering" maybe due ot XMRV being involved

    4) Mass vaccinations grealty ramped up in number of shots and forced on folk for schooling etc aorund that time

    5) Air travel. this is the STUPIDEST thing we Humans have ever done in terms of allowing diseases to spread! Since the 70s, massive proliferation fo cheap air travel's let God only knows how many diseases spread, where as before they'd die out in travel onboard ships as the patients recovered.

    6) Yes biowarrfare is a possible issue, but one pathogen doens't carry dozens of other ones! however, wepaonized strains could pass on genes to other pathogens in the wild and that's a scary damn thought.
    to make a bug affect Humans better, the assholes used various techniques, resulting in germs that had a unnatural affinity to infect us. If these germs then got into the wild it's highly likely they coudl pass on those genes to other pathogens, which is one reaosn why any sane person should never had began such work, they aren't weapons, they are uncontrollable damn liabilities.

    Also, forever after, any unusual disease casts the shadow of it being a bioweapon because these lunatics did in fact do such work, such as HIV making many folk think it's a bioweapon, due to known requests/funds for investments in pathogens that attack the immune system
    no, I'm not saying HIV is a bioweapon, merely that it is a plausible if unlikely possibility, as the stupid idiots actually seriosuly considered making such, see USA 1968 $10 million budget for such a bioweapon. however, techniques of "gene splicing"/understanding of retroviruses etc was lacking at the time so it is unlikely.
    Always remember with science, it's about *probabilities*, there's no such thing as "the truth", only likelyhoods of probability.

    Yes, Western biowarfare systems were about economic warfare, crippling, not killing, creatign fmaines, sickening workers of the producive years etc.
    But does this mean ME is related to a bioweapon? I tend to doubt it except in relation to Lyme, which almsot certainly is a bioweapon. Governments may have panicked thinking ME is one of their germs got lose, or merely to protect prfits of their insurance company campaign contributers especially after the HIV mess, or the feared it was related to vaccines...or who knows.
    Again, techniques of viral manipulaiton weren't advanced enough back then, so it's unlikely, but not impossible.

    7) Many immuno-comprimised people in society increases risk of a pathogen mutating in a weak defence system, to become able to infect Humans where as it should have died out.
    for example, bad health care in USA let multi-resistant TB develop there in the sick and poor, which could then affect healthy people and is incredibly virulent.

    8) Clusters still occur but I don't think they're being reported
    when I got ME back around 1994, it was after a very nasty flu-like bug (took about 2 months to get over), it had hit a hell of a lot of folk around my town and left a good few with ME (from what a GP said).
  11. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Glad to see Polio has come up - a very definate consideration by my Neurologist. (despite childhood vaccination)
  12. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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  13. Crappy

    Crappy Senior Member

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    Lab 257 describes the concept, and Under Our Skin nicely illustrates the idea that one of the main changes in blood sucking insects in our life time has been, they now carry multiple pathogens. The book, Lab 257 describes that a main theme for the Lab was to concentrate the load carrying capacity of the organism. Since viruses are much smaller than bacteria, what was actually occurring was larger organisms were engulfing smaller organisms like "nested boxes". Bacteria lives in the gut of the Tick or Mosquito and the virus lives in the bacteria. Then one bite or sting released a host of pathogens, whereas historically it would only been one or two pathogens.

    Which makes sense why this is happening:
    Proc. Clinical & Scientific Conference on Myalgic Encephalopathy/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, the Practitioners Challenge, Alison Hunter Foundation, Sydney, Australia 2002

    Bacterial and Viral Co-Infections in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS/ME) Patients

    Garth L. Nicolson,1 PhD, Marwan Y. Nasralla,2 PhD, Kenny De Meirleir,3 MD, PhD and Jeorg Haier,4 MD, PhD

    1The Institute for Molecular Medicine, Huntington Beach, California, USA,, 2International Molecular Diagnostics, Inc., Huntington Beach, California, USA, 3Department of Internal Medicine, Free University of Brussels, Brussels, Belgium and 4Department of Surgery, Wilhelm-University, Munster, Germany

    Correspondence: Prof. Garth L. Nicolson, Office of the President, The Institute for Molecular Medicine, 16371 Gothard St. H, Huntington Beach, California 92647. Tel: 714-596-6636; Fax: 714-596-3791; Email: gnicolson@immed.org; Website: www.immed.org

    _______________________________________________________________________
    Abstract

    A majority of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) patients have systemic bacterial and viral infections. In our study of 200 CFS patients we found a high prevalence (52%) of mycoplasmal infections. Using forensic polymerase chain reaction we also examined whether these same CFS patients showed evidence of co-infections with various mycoplasmas, Chlamydia pneumoniae and/or Human Herpes Virus-6 (HHV-6). We found that 7.5% of the patients had C. pneumoniae and 30.5% had HHV-6 infections. Since the presence of one or more infections may predispose patients to other infections, we examined the prevalence of C. pneumoniae and HHV-6 infections in mycoplasma-positive and negative patients. Unexpectedly, we found that the incidence of C. pneumoniae or HHV-6 was similar in mycoplasma-positive and -negative patients. Also, the incidence of C. pneumoniae in HHV-6-positive and negative patients was similar. Control subjects had low rates of mycoplasmal (6%), HHV-6 (9%) or chlamydial (1%) infections, and there were no co-infections in control subjects. Differences in bacterial and/or viral infections in CFS patients compared to control subjects were significant (P<0.001). The results indicate that a very large subset of CFS patients show evidence of bacterial and viral co-infections.

    I have tested positive for about seven myself, so far. I was an outdoor person, exposed to most species in NM, TX an FL.

    Something I fail to understand is, why do these two chronic illness communities not form alliances? we both need the same help.:confused:
  14. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Just fail to understand too - I think our testing is so limted here anyway one is lucky to diagnosed with anything to treat.
  15. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Crappy
    ok, a "vector" carrying multiple diseases that is possible, another matter entirely :)
    I was reffering to idea of single pathogen hosting many
    there are virii that live in bacteria, "bacterophages" which could perhpas do such but is it likely?

    also, again with so much air travel and also container transport, risks of massive rise in vectors carrying multiple diseases would rise, especially by bringing through more vectors
    ie, say a perosn brings back a plant illegally, the plant hides some mosquitoes or ticks...
    or the perosn has a disease, and gets bitten by a tick, tick has Lyme, gives it to person, but also picks up other blood borne diseases he has contracted while abroad and his immune system has not yet had time to defeat.

    makes for nasty possibilities :/
  16. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Every time the secret files are mentioned I ask the question as to which other subjects and medical conditions are also the subject of secret MRC files, but never seem to get an answer. This time I at least had a look at some of the wider context: these files are part of "the S series", 1948-1997, Medical Research Council Registered Files, Scientific Matters

    Description: Files of papers, correspondence, and reports on scientific studies commissioned, operated or funded by the Medical Research Council.

    "The topics covered include Occupational Health, Mental Health, psychology, neurology, virology, genetics, molecular biology and biomedical and biological research. Studies on epidemiology include the genetic studies of refugees from Tristan da Cunha. Further topics include contraception, pregnancy, obstetrics, paediatrics, organ transplantation and toxicology. Studies on the effects of microwaves on human tissue are also included."

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...asp?CATID=5955&CATLN=3&accessmethod=5#summary

    From the above, click 'Browse From Here' and then click on FD23 to open it as a folder, and you can page through the subject titles of the FD23 documents in general...pages and pages of them...
  17. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    It seems very obvious to me, and i would think everyone, they're hiding something very wrong that they did, most probably biological weapons (and/or vaccine contamination with ME causing viruses). They claim it's because it will take too long to redact personal medical info, which seems laughable to me. I wonder what would happen if we raised a fund to pay for the redaction. Something tells me they would still not release the records.
  18. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Under Our Skin is a great movie! Which does illustrate nicely the increasing spread of multiple infections, due to jet spread, encroachment into wooded areas, growth in deer population, etc, via one vector- ticks.

    I've been meaning to read the Lab 257; it's well known they were working on pathogens and had lax containment standards. makes sense it could well be the source of Lyme.

    The 'school bus' idea of tick-borne bacteria carrying multiple viruses and unloading them is very interesting. These guys at Plum Island may have been at the head of the class, but they definitely rode the ethical and common-sense short bus.
  19. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Sliverblade, these are really interesting and valid points imo.

    If anyone is interested in more reading on CDC's negligence with infectious diseases I recommend "The Coming Plague" and "Betrayal of Trust" both by the same author. pretty sure she won a pulitzer for her reporting of Ebola. They're almost Osler's Web long so start with one- Coming Plague. They're divided into chapters on different diseases so you don't have to read the whole book to get full stories out of it.
  20. Crappy

    Crappy Senior Member

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    Our arrogance and ignorance is undoing us in our lifetime. :oops:

    I hope the chimps evolve smarter this next time. :confused:

    You have to wonder how many times this has happened already. :eek:

    I can feel Mother Natures backhand coming. We're about to be nothing but a pile of microorganisms again. -SPLAT-

    (Thanks for the titles.)

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