Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

What exactly is methylation?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by joe12, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    27
    I am guessing it usually means taking a methyl b12 protocol when some component to convert b12 to its different forms are not in good quantity. I am also assuming this can happen with other vitamins as well as many other necessary components for all kinds of metabolic processes. But what exactly are these for vitamins, and how is it tested? Are there different ways to do it? What is the best set of tests or single panel test to determine problems?
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes:
    1,020
    Methylation is a process going on in every cell in our body. In its very essence it passes methyl groups around, a carbon atom with 3 hydrogens attached to it (CH3), which are used as switches to regulate gene activity.

    Substances such as B12, folate, TMG etc... are involved in this process because they are methyl-group donors and they regulate this process. Also they depend on several other co-factors (vitamins, minerals)

    If you want to test your methylation status you can have a "methylation panel" which will show the status of some of the most important byproducts of mehtylation such as glutathione, s-adenosyl-methionine (SAM-e) and folate status.

    See here:
    http://www.hdri-usa.com/tests/methylation/

    cheers
     
    Sushi, helen1, Sherpa and 1 other person like this.
  3. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    27
    I saw a video from a doctor saying that one can directly know about methyl activity by getting a basic organic acid test by urine sample.

    I have a qualitative organic acid test from random urine and an amino acid quantitative profile from plasma. I also have an acylcarnitine quantitative profile from plasma.

    The organic acid test only says if its normal in range. There is a note that says that some acids are not well extracted by urine, but my guess is that a quantitative test would be better for every component.

    On my results every part is normal for this first test. It seems to include a few methyl groups which I would like to list, however I am not saying they are methyl groups thou or if they have anything to do with the important pathways that affect glutathione levels along with the conjugations needed to detox properly:

    2-hydroxy-3-methylvaleric
    2-methylbutyrylglycine
    3-hydroxy-2methylbutyric
    3-methylcrotonylglycine
    3-methylglutaconic
    3-methylglutaric
    methylcitric
    methylmalonic

    Again note that I don't know biochemistry so I could be wrong and these could not be part of this group. I actually think they probably aren't but just have something to do with it.

    I found a site called chemspider and looked some of the compounds I just listed, but most of these have CH3 at some point in the middle. http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.8972081.html

    However this might not be true, maybe these are not good indicators for pathways, or maybe I should just get a quantitative serum for organic acids for more specific results if they actually are. If these restults don't meassure the four kinds of b12 and if the test from hdri do then I guess I should get it.

    Also, I want to say that I have found a lot of bad things said about Genova which seemed to make good tests, don't know if most people here are aware of the changes but here is a blog post made by a doctor who used them and Metamatrix and he is not pleased, this is very concerning to me and I think many should be aware of this.
    http://chartingdoctorterritory.wordpress.com/2013/10/25/why-genova-diagnostics-is-now-on-my-st-list/

    Now, I know Hdri is not Genova, it seems Hdri is upfront with their prices and testing, not one hundred percent sure thou, but I am wondering if there is a good lab that does a test similar to Nutreval which can include components of the Hdri Methylation Pathway panel. Perhaps something made by a lab like Quest or other such labs?
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,245
    Likes:
    33,532
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Most organic compounds contain methyl groups. That is not particularly important in methylation. Aside from gene silencing etc., methyl groups are used to make alternative proteins. That is the DNA -> RNA -> protein only has so many variations, though one DNA section can lead to many proteins due to different processing. One late stage aspect of processing is adding a methyl group -CH3 to proteins, and possibly to other molecules as well. I suspect, but have not followed up the biochemistry, that methylation is important in DNA repair too.

    Methylation in the sense it is most often used on this forum is about the cycle of production of methyl groups, and also indirectly about synthesis of substances like cysteine.
     
  5. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    27
    So what you are saying is that methyl groups are most important in the late phases to produce proteins but what control this is DNA expression and the use of vitamin groups like b12? So if one is not producing specific methyl groups because of insufficient gene expression then one cannot use some vitamins and not produce important proteins? I guess there is also the other side where one is not absorbing enough vitamins so even thou the infrastructure is there its not working? Maybe organic acids are a good indication of this?

    What do you think about the methylation panel from Hdri? And what do you think about Genova?
     
  6. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes:
    3,209
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    @joe12 Please see the Methylation Made Easy video series linked in my signature below.

    The HDRI was useful to get a snapshot of my methylation cycle, but it hasn't been that useful for treatment. The Nutreval test, if interpreted with the Nutreval Interpretation Guide (linked below) is much more useful. That along with a 23andme gene test and then pulling out the methylation cycle genes and interpreting those, will give you a comprehensive treatment guide. I have a guide for that too called the SNPs Intepretation Guide.

    The main thing is to get as educated as you can before messing with supplements. And also find a good practitioner to work with. I have a link for that too.

    ps. you may be able to use the Nutreval Interpretation Guide to interpret your existing amino acids test.
     
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,245
    Likes:
    33,532
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    I have no opinions on methylation panels because I have not investigated them. However I do know that most path labs in Australia use old expensive obsolete and unreliable tests.

    We have so much that is controlled by switching genes off. If all our genes were to operate we would be in a mess. However this needs to be tightly regulated. Failure in methylation would mean a failure in that regulation. It might also mean that many of our enzymes and structural proteins are subtly defective. So methylation failure might indeed feed back to poor methylation enzymes, and even more failure ... but this is only speculative at this point.
     
  8. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    27
    @caledonia
    I will look at most things you have listed, its just that I am trying to go slow because its quite a lot of new info and I am feeling terrible lately. At the same time I am anxious and stressed to get this together and start feeling better and not messing things up or miss important info. Also I cannot afford to waste money on something that will not help and only confuse me more, it has happened and its not fun, it only sets me back a long time. So its like you say, I should learn the science and details in a way I can understand.

    Was Genova straight forward about the Nutreval test pricing? How long ago did you take the test? I ask because I have heard some bad things about them. Did your Hdri correlate well with Nutreval? Couldn't I just get the Hdri, spend less, and see if there is something wrong, and if not then assume Nutreval results would be ok? If the methylation panel is not good then surely I could do something about it with that test alone? Again, I don't trust Genova because of what I have read, its mostly negative things, it seems the quality of their service has gone down while prices have gone up.

    Also, what does Freddd recommend when it comes to testing?
     
  9. joe12

    joe12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    27
    Its a shame that functional/integrative medicine has been so slow to be implemented and to get competitive by laboratories.

    What if the failure in methylation arises from poor detoxification which would lead to poor gene regulation, so that in essence methylation support is needed but also while detoxifying by promoting the glutathione system? If this would be true then the origin of the problems would seem to come from poor genetics on the areas responsible for detox and antioxidant production and use, a lot of which relies in getting the conjugation balances needed to get a toxin our of the tissues, out of cells, and then get them to the kidneys and the guts. Then this could also cause immune system problems as the body is not able to handle the toxins, plus microbacteria and some viruses take advantage too causing inflammation which would bring down the detoxifying efforts even more. Toxins would also interfere with enzyme functions needed to express genes no? Isn't this what Dr. Rich Vank suggests? I haven't read his material yet thou.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2014

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page