Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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What causes lack of emotion?

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by drob31, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I also suffer the blunted affect (blunted emotions) of ME/CFS.

    Out of all the supplements and drugs (listed in this post) that I noticed increase emotional responses, allicin is the only one that seems to consistently and reliably ramp up emotions, making me feel more human again.

    Unfortunately the allicin dose required to increase emotional responses I find is quite high: around 6 x 180 mg allicin capsules taken once daily. This then becomes a little expensive, since 90 x 180 mg of allicin costs around £16.


    I am not sure why allicin boosts emotional responses, but it may relate to the fact that sulphur-containing compounds from garlic such as allicin are known to act on the hypothalamus, and the hypothalamus plays an important role in emotional processing in the brain (and as we know, the hypothalamus may not be functioning properly in ME/CFS, due to the HPA-axis dysfunction, which might explain the blunted emotions of ME/CFS in the first place).
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  2. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    Interesting post this. Among other things allicin stops platelets clumping together so it thins your blood. It is possible that the blood supply to some parts of the brain is diminished in ME so some emotional reactions get blunted. Also possible that allicin is acting directly on the levels of Serotonin in the brain and elsewhere. Could be this effect that is thinning the blood. Effect is short lived though so needs to be taken regularly. Crushed garlic would be a cheaper option if you can stand the taste and stomach upset you might get. Wont work if you swallow garlic whole.
     
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    An interesting idea, but I have never noticed any emotion-boosting effects from other blood thinners like bromelain. Although I notice very mild increases in emotional responses from vinpocetine, a supplement that increases cerebral blood flow.

    The effects of garlic compounds on the hypothalamus are described in this paper:
    Increases in leptin seems to be a problem in ME/CFS, as it promotes brain inflammation (see this article), and high leptin can result from leptin resistance (insensitivity to leptin), so the increase in leptin sensitivity afforded by sulphur-containing compounds of garlic may be generally helpful in ME/CFS.



    You can try that, but note that one 180 mg capsule of allicin is equivalent to about 40 cloves of garlic, and so my allicin dose of 6 x 180 mg is equivalent to 240 cloves.

    Allicin has quite strong antibacterial effects, so if you are using high doses on a long-term basis, perhaps probiotic supplement might be an idea, to ensure you maintain good levels of friendly bacteria in the gut.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  4. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Yeah I've had your problem for ages, nowadays I reserve some doses of opioids or phenibut for social occasions, they do work acutely, although I hate some aspects of phenibut.

    That still leaves daily life very bland especially since I stopped opioids during the week. In my case my best estimation is that disregulation of endogenous opioids and their receptors have to be involved (desensitized or lowered production of mu-opioid and/or increased kappa-opioid), the only other real alternative I see being glucocorticoid/CRH receptor rewiring, whereas things like 5-ht receptors I've lost interest in even though they sound relevant on paper. Possibly deranged immune signaling downregulates opioid receptors, so a basic solution would be LDN, which still haven't tried yet. Instead I use high dose allopregnanolone precursor every few days primarily for cognition but it does have an effect on bluntness although much weaker/less-drastic than phenibut or opioid combo (the allo modulates way too much to infer how it's working, but it does modulate opioids in interesting way).

    These days most other substances I try to take actually worsen it (except amino acids). Usually I have to trade cognition and work capacity for emotion, so it gets sidelined. That sounds like a normal problem when I read it back but you know what I mean.
     
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  5. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    i've also considering going on opioids and kratom and just using ultra low dose naltrexone to help with tolerance. nothing seems to be helping me and it seems like the only way to deal with the misery
     
  6. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    This is so weird you write this. I have this. Dreams are more vivid and full of emotions than everyday life.
     
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  7. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    same, although i experience emotions in real life, dreams are so vivid and disturbing it's hard to even explain
     
  8. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    Yep have heard this from almost everyone I have met with ME. Dreams about doing very physical things like running are common.
     
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  9. Stretched

    Stretched Senior Member

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    There’s an interesting book ‘Why Buddhism is True,’ by Robert Wright (not religious; philosophical), It wanders around this topic, indirectly in a thought provoking manner which stimulates balancing emotions. It’s food for a questioning mind:

    ...“But the main point is just that all kinds of curiosity—ranging from a driving, headlong quest to a pleasant stroll along the byways of speculation—do seem to involve feelings. It’s no surprise, then, that brain scans are showing that a curious state of mind involves activity in the dopamine system, the system involved in motivation and reward, in desire and pleasure.”

    Every thought has a propellant, and that propellant is emotional.”...

    *
    Note: highlights are mine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  10. tooth

    tooth

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    I'm not one for nightmares but waking up from dreams where I've been running is one of the very few things that can make me sad.
     
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  11. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Tyrosine almost makes me feel normal, depending on the dose, but it seems like I need to cycle it, or I crash from it.,
     

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