1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

What category do you fall into for your diet?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Dan Neuffer, Jan 29, 2013.

?

Which category do you fall into for your Diet?

  1. I was Vegetarian/Vegan IN THE TIME LEADING UP TO my illness starting.

    8.2%
  2. I was Vegetarian/Vegan for during most of the time I have been ill trying to recover..

    1.4%
  3. I have been Vegetarian/Vegan for most of my adult life.

    8.2%
  4. I have not been Vegetarian/Vegan. (excluding any short trials)

    82.2%
  1. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes:
    2,854
    WA, USA
    I find the opposite. Most of us need a high-protein diet. I have even met two or three people who were successfully vegetarian before getting ME/CFS, but now have to use meat or at least fish.

    Most of us who have been ill a long time have modified our diets to find intolerances (e.g. gluten, soy, dairy, and excitotoxins are all common; nightshades is not uncommon) and to figure out what balance of things is good.
     
  2. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,535
    Likes:
    2,095
    London
    I doubt if the staff at the Royal Free hospital (or people at any of the outbreaks of ME) were vegetarians or vegans.

    Meet very few PWME or CFS who are vegetarians. Have met a few who were before they became ill and then discovered that they were better on another type of diet.

    We are all different and there are sure to be people who feel better with no meat or different things.
     
    WillowJ and merylg like this.
  3. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,876
    Scotland
    I have read, over the years, several things which have suggested that something akin to the Atkins diet is actually the best for PWME.
    Carbs are not good for us at all.
    But I love my carbs!
    If I don't get enough veggies, I crave veggies; if I don't get enough meat, I crave meat.
    I always crave carbs.:cry:
     
  4. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes:
    75
    Dan~
    I love your idea of a poll or of trying to start a discussion about diet and health, but I feel your poll is way too limited. All kinds of factors play into what is a healthy diet. For example, some people have food intolerance and don't know it. The food that they are eating is making them ill and they don't recognize it. That could be different foods for different people and it could affect them in different ways. A good book on this subject is: http://www.amazon.com/Food-Allergie...&keywords=food allergies and food intolerance He has some interesting case studies presented in his book.

    I have always eaten a very healthy diet as my background is nutrition. I was one of the healthiest people around, and one of the most physically active before I got ill. I do think it was a steroid shot to my knee that allowed a latent bacterial pathogen to become active. Then I think my immune system took a hit and viruses reactivated. Then I think both kinds of pathogens (as well as the antibiotics) affected my GI tract and I *think* I now have food intolerance. (And I never would have suspected that about me).

    During various times in my life I have eaten vegetarian, or mostly vegan, or certainly whole foods with very little unprocessed foods and now I am avoiding all the major food allergens. I actually went on a few foods elimination diet for most of December and a good part of January. Only now am I adding foods back in. We will see where that takes me.

    I've started a blog. Check out this page: http://tinascocina.com/healthy-eating/ and the Resources page: http://tinascocina.com/resources/

    I do think diet plays a role in our health (obvious if you read the first link above). I also think it can play a role in our healing if we are eating a poor diet (which was not my case) or are dealing with food intolerance (which I think is an issue for me).

    I will soon be putting up posts on how to eat healthy (Post 1 of at least a 10 part series will be going online today or tomorrow). I will continue to post all kinds of recipes, including allergy free ones, and also a few "treat" ones. ;)

    I am very interested in the discussion about food and nutrition and how it impacts our health so I will subscribe to this thread or any others that I notice on this topic. :)

    And if anyone has suggestions on my blog, I would be interested to hear that.

    So, let me know if you start a discussion about food and health, for I'd love to be part of it!

    Best, Timaca
     
  5. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,876
    Scotland
    Hi Timaca - I'm more of " foodie" than into any particular sort of diet, but as it's quality I'm interested in, obviously this means a lot of organic and wholefoods and avoiding processed - simply because it tastes so much better.

    I do think that something we should be paying a lot more attention to, if we choose to eat meat, is;

    What has the meat been fed?

    The use of corn and grain to feed cattle, who are grasseaters, drastically changes the nutrititive content of the meat produced - and while chicken used to be a low-fat and healthy meat - it is no longer because of the breeds chosen for putting masses of weight on quickly, on what is again, a very poor and unnatural diet for the poor birds.
     
  6. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,738
    Likes:
    3,081
    U.K
    I would like to tentatively suggest that your poll so far shows up the fallacy that vegetarians and vegans are more likely to suffer from M.E/CFS. I have noticed this view touted around a lot - and even by some M.E doctors with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

    I am a commited vegetarian as are most of my family, all my children and many many of my friends - i am the only one in my circle of friends to have M.E. Most of the people who post on this forum are not or have not been veggie for extended periods of time.

    It is time this ridiculous and unscientific notion was put to rest.

    All the best, Justy
     
    golden, helen1 and ahimsa like this.
  7. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,876
    Scotland
    I do not for one moment think that being vegetarian or vegan is any sort of predisposing factor, Justy.
    I think it might be difficult, health-wise, to stay completely and totally vegetarian after you're unlucky enough to get ME.
     
  8. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes:
    75
    Peggy Sue~ Yes, what we eat, especially nutrient dense foods (whole foods) as compared to nutrient deficient foods (highly processed foods) can impact our health. I don't think red meat is good for us no matter what it has been fed...there is a strong correlation between red meat intake and colon cancer, among other things. See the Reduce Your Cancer Risk section here: http://tinascocina.com/healthy-eating/ And I agree with you on the poor chickens being fed in such a way that their breasts are so large they aren't healthy. That isn't fair to them. I try to buy poultry that is more humanely raised.

    Justy, (and others) research shows that a plant based diet is the healthiest. Check out the Enjoy Longevity section on the link I posted above. Make sure you watch the video. Also read the Seventh-Day Adventist's studies on that same page.

    Those who think differently, feel free to show me the research that states that. When I sat down to compile that Healthy Eating page I did it with an open mind.

    I will be attending a seminar in a couple of weeks at Loma Linda on vegetarian nutrition. I am very excited about that. I prefer a plant based diet, but due to my elimination diet I've been on, I've eaten very few foods in total, and beans are not one of them (sadly). Neither is wheat, rye, barley, oats, tree-nuts, soy, dairy, sesame, citrus, peanuts...and the list goes on. But, I do hope to add beans back in soon and see what happens. I've been eating a lot of turkey as that is not a highly allergenic food. I've eaten more turkey the last two months than I have my entire life!

    In another month or so I'll post my experience on how I feel diet has (or has not) impacted my health (as far as food intolerance goes).

    Oh, and while we are on that topic, another excellent book on that subject is: http://www.amazon.com/Dealing-Food-Allergies-Practical-Detecting/dp/092352164X

    Best, Timaca
     
  9. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,876
    Scotland
    Luckily, I am able to source humanely kept grass-fed beef here. (not too far from Aberdeen!)
    The risk of susceptibility to colorectal cancer from grass-fed beef is far less than for grain-fed.

    Much more needs KNOWN about all the ghastly short-cuts big business takes to eke out as much profit for as little substance as possible.

    I am really, really concerned about the mental health of folk growing up, whose brains (and bodies) were initially built from their mothers' diet of pure hydrogenated fats and fructose syrup.
    You can't build proper brains from that!

    I'm really not at all sure about "enjoying" longevity! :p
    I might enjoy it, if I were fit and well.
     
    anne_likes_red and justy like this.
  10. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,285
    Likes:
    584
    Seattle
    With all due respect to the pollster, there's a huge difference between eating vegetarian vs. vegan...to lump them together is odd, and IMO makes the poll almost pointless.

    ???
     
  11. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes:
    75
    Peggysue~ Do you have any journal articles or research that discusses grass fed beef and cancer? If so I'd love to have those references.

    I totally agree with your thoughts about people growing up on bad food. I know when I eat just a little of the nutrient deficient food that I do not feel as well (and this was true when I was healthy!)

    That's true....longevity with CFS is not such a great idea. I will say that this month has been my best month in the 9 years of my illness so it doesn't seem as bad an idea now. ;)

    dannybex~ Good point. There can be a huge difference between vegetarians and vegans, especially if vegetarians eat large quantities of whole fat dairy products. And quite honestly, both groups can still eat horribly if they are eating high sugar, high fat (wrong kind of fat--butter, margarine, instead of avocado and nuts), and processed foods.

    Best, Timaca
     
  12. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

    Messages:
    8,337
    Likes:
    5,270
    Sth Australia
    I was vegatarian for a time before ME/CFS thou ate a lot of eggs and dairy when I was so..

    The diet I need to be on due to my health now is EXTREMELY low carb. I cant eat a diabetic diet as its still way too high in carbs for me and gives me symptoms (and makes some of my ME/CFS symptoms worst). My need to be eatting meat with every meal is thou not due to the ME/CFS but rather cause I have PCOS with the coexisting hyperinsulinemia due to that.

    But my high meat diet thou may be helping me as far as ME/CFS goes too as I have almost no iron storage even thou i do eat meat several times per day in often large quantities. Constantly eatting meat.. keeps me from quickly developing proper anaemia. My CFS specialist says he's noticed that its very common in his ME/CFS patients to have no iron stores and he says this is cause we are using our iron far faster then normal people do due to having to replace cells due to damage, faster.

    Many ME/CFS specialists think we should in general be on high protein/low carb diets as this does help many of us (along with avoiding any food intollerences we have.. often wheat, dairy and fructose can be an issue to us. I think I may have issues to all three of those things.. celiac disease runs in my family and I have the genotype for this).
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,420
    Likes:
    4,820
    australia (brisbane)
    If it runs around on the ground, comes out of the ground or off a tree, that is what most of our diet should consist of. Things out of packets man made etc should be limited. If u stuck to the above guidelines even if a vegatarian, vegan, meatatarian etc it will be nutrient dense and low in carbs mostly.

    My opinion is that meat has more nutrients then any one food source. If one was to look up an anatomy and phys book and look up where all the different food sources nutrients are found, meat is in more of them then any one food source. Im not saying meat only either but meatless diets also have to have a wider variety of foods to obtain all the nutrients needed. Before shopping centres etc meat was the most widely available food as it is there all year round that they would hunt for, where fuit and veg are seasonal and not always available to people back prior to shopping centres etc Also the variety of fruit and vege would have been limited in some areas compared to others due to climate and availability etc. I think this is the theory behind paleo type diets.
     
  14. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,535
    Likes:
    2,095
    London
    Dan may have had other ideas for starting this poll. He sells a book and visits some local CFS groups with his ideas on how to "cure" CFS.
    It maybe that he is collecting ideas for another book or working on ideas that he has for another. Not sure what the current books says about diet and CFS.

    He hasn't said why he chose those options for the poll. Would be interesting to know if tied up with his book in any way.
     
  15. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes:
    75
    taniaaust1~ You bring up an interesting point about iron deficiency anemia. I did have that early in my illness (I also had it around age 19 when I did not have CFS). It was related to my heavy menses. Once that was taken care of, I took a LOT of iron and my iron indices normalized. I still had to take iron though to keep my ferritin level around 80.

    Earlier this year I stopped taking the iron supplements, knowing that when I retested, my ferritin level would have dropped and I would need to restart them. At the end of October I went gluten free. I do not have celiac, and I didn't think gluten was an issue for me, but I knew it wouldn't hurt me so I thought I'd give it a try.

    My ferritin level was 134 when I retested! :eek: I was shocked! I told my PCP either this is lab error or gluten was injuring my GI tract and not allowing me to absorb the iron efficiently. I was not taking iron supplements between about February and November when the ferritin was checked!

    That is what started me down the road of checking for all kinds of food intolerance.....long story there....

    Are you gluten free taniaaust1?

    Best, Timaca
     
  16. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,876
    Scotland
    I don't keep that sort of reference Timaca, just make a mental note. I am very concerned about animal welfare and always have been. It was very likely an article in New Scientist, and if so, it would have been before 2009, when I started boycotting it because of the article supporting the weasel.
    I do believe there is a lot more corn and grain fed beef in the states than anywhere else.
     
    Timaca likes this.
  17. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,718
    Likes:
    10,236
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    Good point. With a vegan diet a B12 deficiency is inevitable without supplementation, whereas a vegetarian diet can provide plenty of B12. And B12 deficiency is fairly common problem in ME/CFS, and can cause many of the same symptoms.
     
  18. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,512
    Likes:
    4,012
    Midwest USA
    What an oxymoron that is!

    Ema
     
  19. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,285
    Likes:
    584
    Seattle
    Exactly. Plus, a vegan diet is more likely to be much higher in omega 6 fatty acids from all the seeds and nuts (and vegetable oils), beans, and be high in copper / low in zinc. Low in zinc due to no meat/eggs/fish, and the high in copper due to nuts, seeds, chocolate, herbs, tomatoes, etc.
     
    WillowJ and Valentijn like this.
  20. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes:
    75
    Ema....not following what you are saying here.....

    Best, Timaca
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page