The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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What are the possible reasons for 'waking up' in the evening?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Kenny Banya, May 14, 2017.

  1. Kenny Banya

    Kenny Banya Senior Member

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    Its supposedly rather common for ME/CFS sufferers to be least tired in the evening.
    Sleepy all day then become awake in the evening.

    What are the suggested physiological reasons for this?
     
    MeSci likes this.
  2. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    I've read it has to do with adrenal gland fatigue. Can't explain why though.
     
  3. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Some of us have reverse cortisol curves--low in the morning, high in the evening. It can be tested with 4 cortisol tests during the day.
     
  4. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    My cortisol is a little higher overall but still follows the curve, yet I still have the same phenomena.
     
  5. Kenny Banya

    Kenny Banya Senior Member

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    Yes I have heard of cortisol being a cause.
    Have you had this type of cortisol multi-test?
     
  6. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Yes, several times. The first time it was reversed, the second time it was fairly normal, the third time the curve went in the right direction but cortisol was lower than normal at all points tested.
     
  7. Kenny Banya

    Kenny Banya Senior Member

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    What type of specialist did the test?
     
  8. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    The explanation must be more than just adrenals, because most of my symptoms often remit in the evenings. This is a fascinating and unexplored component of this disease.
     
    Jennifer J, MeSci and Sushi like this.
  9. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    I am only good for a few hours after waking up. Tired at night.
     
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Not a specialist--just my primary care doc.
     
  11. Alvin2

    Alvin2 Senior Member

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    Morningness or eveningness are circadian traits which are genetic
     
    IreneF likes this.
  12. Orla

    Orla Senior Member

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    I don't think that explains this problem for ME patients. A lot of people experience a change in their sleeping pattern, and their best time of the day, before and after illness.

    I used to go to bed around 10pm (sometimes later) and get up between 6-7am before I got sick. Now my ideal sleep time is to fall asleep between 3-4am (I go to bed a few hours before this) and wake between about 11.30am-12.30am.

    It is also a bit weird that a person might feel totally out of it all day, but suddenly perk-up after 11pm which happens to me often, and other people that I know of. My most productive hours mentally are often late at night.
     
  13. Alvin2

    Alvin2 Senior Member

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    I agree that ME throws sleep patterns to hell, i have non 24 hour circadian rhythm disorder, its a royal pita.
    It may explain it, it may be part of it, perhaps there is a mechanism we are not aware of, or all of the above we don't really have enough information to come to any scientific conclusion IMO.
     
    Diwi9 likes this.
  14. Orla

    Orla Senior Member

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    I agree we can't explain it at this time, but I don't think it has anything to do with lifelong genetic preference as it is a very marked post-ME onset thing for many of us.
     
  15. Alvin2

    Alvin2 Senior Member

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    Perhaps, and i have found that sometimes after i am mentally/physically blown out things get easier, though that usually means the PEM is going to hit me even harder. Picking one's poison is not much fun.
     
    Orla likes this.
  16. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I've found that I've become extremely sensitive to the blue light put out by screens (computer, tablet, phone, etc. and possibly tv). I have to get off the computer by 8pm or it wakes me up in the evening and my sleep moves forward an hour or two. It's tricky because it takes a day or two to show up.

    Before I was aware of this, I had a non-24 sleep pattern that constantly moved forward.

    I believe this is regulated by the pineal gland.
     
  17. Alvin2

    Alvin2 Senior Member

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    Blue light regulates the circadian rhythm, via photoreceptors in our eyes we are not consciously aware of. I have blue light blocking glasses and use them each evening, but they have little effect (maybe 10-20% at most).
     
    Jennifer J likes this.
  18. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Yes, I've tried the glasses too and they don't work that well. That's why I totally get off the computer.

    I think there is also something to mental stimulation keeping you charged up and awake.

    These things also affect normals (if you ever look at guidelines for sleep hygiene, they have admonitions about these things), but they seem more sensitive for me since I got sick.
     
    Jennifer J likes this.
  19. Alvin2

    Alvin2 Senior Member

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    For me its very different, the mental stimulation has little effect but i have been to several sleep neurologists and done much testing and tried many treatments to little effect, just worse then yours i suppose.
     
  20. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    I use an app on my Mac called f.lux that blocks out the blue light at all times
     
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