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What are good adjunctive therapies to protect against the adverse effects of antibiotics?

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by Jesse2233, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    I'm likely starting cocktail of antibiotics for a chronic mycoplasma pneumoniae infection, and I'd like to prevent long term damage to my gut flora. Understanding that there are no perfect precautions, what are good some adjunctive therapies to protect against the worst effects?

    Already taking:

    - VSL3
    - Yeastbiotic
    - PrescriptAssist

    And doing daily mHBOT

    Also will likely add a natural binder

    Thanks!
     
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  2. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Mitochondrial support. Many antibiotics also damage mitochondria.
     
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  3. echobravo

    echobravo Keep searching, the answer is out there

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    Maybe add olive leaf extract or similar to make it harder for yeast and pathogens to grow in small intestines. Dr Myhill recommends to take high dose (to bowel tolerance) vitamin c at night to keep it acidic, which supposedly a bad climate for those pathogens. Also, don’t feed them - stay low on carbs (sugars, starch..). Bacteria don’t feed on fat, but you do - so I would increase fat for energy. Fermented foods/drinks for high doses of commensal bacteria?

    Dr. Mercola has an interesting new probiotic product, Restore Spore, focusing on bacillus species and betaglucans. Here is his recent article with useful info on gut health (in addition to product PR;)

    http://probiotics.mercola.com/spore-probiotics.html

    Tryptophanpeptide and omega-3 is also supposed to be good for restoring a functional intestinal flora.
     
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  4. echobravo

    echobravo Keep searching, the answer is out there

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    What would that typically involve?
     
  5. adelheid55

    adelheid55 Senior Member

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    Yes @Thinktank I would be interested in this too...
     
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  6. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Thanks for the feedback

    Any thoughts on pre-biotics?
     
  7. echobravo

    echobravo Keep searching, the answer is out there

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    I never concluded regarding FOS, inulin etc - some say they are beneficial, some claim they can feed pathogens (like klebsiella pn).

    Dr. Gundry advocates resistant starches to feed your colon commensal bacteria (check his book “Plant Paradox”) - things like green bananas/plantains, cassava, parsnips, glucomannan, tiger nuts, turnips etc. However, I would guess that in the presence of sibo or candida the higher carb content of some of those foods might be worsening things in the small intestines..
     
  8. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Interesting, what about supplemental fiber?
     
  9. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    it would be nice to see what kind of antibiotic you will take and to have a look into mechanicism of their toxicity.

    Mitochondrial inhibition/damage is one possible pathway for some (Quinolones, tetracyclines)

    And if you take Macrolides for example, they can have inhibition effect on Nitric Oxide Synthase, and this can have good or bad neurological effects, depending on cases.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19811424
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18684233

    You also have to consider that taking two antibiotics together can increase the toxicity risk.
     
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  10. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Thanks @pattismith

    I'll be taking clarithromyacin, rifampin, and cefdinir
     
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  11. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    I tryed clarythro but couldn't cope with the side effect (as my nervous system and mitochondria are already damaged by Azytro + Doxy I took previously).

    I've read that B12 can regulate the Nitric Oxyde Synthases, I wish I had knowed this before, maybe it would have protected me:


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18836533
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19328848
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18923642

    injections of B12 and B1 now help me to deal with the damages, but I can't tell which one is the most helpful.
     
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  12. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Good to know!

    I'm doing b12 injections every other day and getting an IV that includes b1 weekly, so hopefully that will give me some cover
     
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  13. echobravo

    echobravo Keep searching, the answer is out there

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    There are many types of fiber, and I know Dr Mercola recommends psyllium husk. However, my gastro professor claims that the “volume increasing” cellulose fibers are of little benefit. He says to take “oat hull fiber”, which is supposed to be particularly rich in lignin. The polyphenols in lignin facilitates electron transport across the intestinal barrier (don’t ask details, my source - the gastro professor - says it has to do with “redox”..)

    Edit: oat fiber also contains Beta-glucans, a prebiotic non-digestible oligosaccharide that feeds your good bacteria. It has other health benefits too, e.g. wrt binding bile and thereby lowering bad cholesterol.

    Edit 2. Definition: the ingredient “oat hull fiber” or “oat fiber” is a primarily insoluble fiber derived from oat hulls, the outermost part of the oat kernel that surrounds the oat groat.

    Dr. Mercola on the benefits of polyfenols, lignan included.

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/10/09/polyphenols-health-benefits.aspx
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  14. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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  15. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Jesse, have you now decided this for sure?
     
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  16. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Pretty close, though I have to admit I'm nervous about it
     
  17. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I don't blame you and I would be nervous, too, but I am not a big fan of antibiotics based on my own past experience! When do you have to decide?
     
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  18. anni66

    anni66 mum to ME daughter

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    Hi @Jesse2233, i have similar concerns. My daughter (16) has been making little progress with supplementation and has subsequently tested positive for H Pylori. She is mostly in bed and i have concerns re her ability to cope with the treatment regime. We have had to liaise with chemist re prescription as certain E numbers are a nightmare ( yellow salicylates)- so some concerns re liver function. ATP levels are low,and ADP/ATP conversion poor.
    In UK not a lot of knowledge re CFS/ME on general level, and on biochemistry of different mechanisms at GP level- i' m more concerned about the effect of the anti bacterial antibiotic ' s potential to affect mito function .
    If we can rid of H.Pylori it should make a huge difference , both for fatigue and brain fog
     
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  19. anni66

    anni66 mum to ME daughter

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  20. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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