1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Nitric oxide and its possible implication in ME/CFS (Part 2 of 2)
Andrew Gladman explores the current and historic hypotheses relating to nitric oxide problems in ME/CFS. This second article in a 2-Part series puts nitric oxide under the microscope and explores what it is, what it does and why it is so frequently discussed in the world of ME/CFS....
Discuss the article on the Forums.

What about the DOGS?

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Boule de feu, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    Sorry if someone has already mentioned this.

    I am wondering if researchers have already thought of this, but I thought it would be interesting to look at dogs with CFS to see if they present the same XMRV infection.

    http://priory.com/vet/cfsdogs.htm

    http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/tarello/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-dogs-and-cats.pdf

    It seems that researchers are able to identify which dogs have CFS (easier than humans?). It would be easy to check if they also have XMRV? Could it give us some info that we need?
     
  2. Merry

    Merry Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Likes:
    615
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
    Thanks, Boule de feu. I hadn't heard anything on the topic of sick pets for a long time. In the 90s many times I read reports of CFS patients with sick pets, and I myself had a dog and, later, a cat, that seemed to age rapidly, were lethargic and "arthritc" (stiff and apparently in pain) and whose sudden deaths vets puzzled over.

    I had not known that vets were diagnosing pets with CFS.
     
  3. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    My dog died from a epileptic-like type of seizure. It was very sudden, too.

    I wonder if researchers could use this info and figure out what's wrong with them and then apply this to us?
     
  4. twopenneth

    twopenneth

    Messages:
    22
    Likes:
    0
    Mouse related viruses-
    I thought about this. I have noticed that a lot of people on the ME Face book pages are pet owners. Primarily cat and dog owners cats chase mice dogs chase cats. I even noticed a CFS study. CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME (C.F.S.) IN A FAMILY OF DOGS
    It seems pets are not immune to this illness! can this virus jump these species of animal?
    http://priory.com/vet/cfsdogs.htm
     
  5. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    I believe that's the link I gave above. Did you have another study in mind?

    What strikes me is the fact that vets are able to identify CFS in dogs (and probably cats) without doubting that there is a real illness going on. Why is it so hard to believe that we could be infected with the same bacteria, virus, etc.?
    Is CFS found in dogs a different illness than human CFS and if so, why would they call it CFS?
     
  6. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    Other opinions/comments on this?
     
  7. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    Would WE give the illness to our pets or would THEY give it to us?
     
  8. Merry

    Merry Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Likes:
    615
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
    Hi, Boule de feu.

    Yes, I wonder how the researchers arrived at the decision to call the sickness in pets CFS. Did a researcher have a personal interest in CFS in humans, say, an ill family member or friend and had read about CFS patients with sick pets? Any vets on this forum?

    In my case, I was sick long before I owned the dog and the cat. So if I carried/carry some pathogen infectious to other mammals I think I must've made the dog and the cat sick. No way to prove that. But I do feel responsible.

    Both the dog and cat, I might add, suddenly died at times when they were under stress. During moves they were left in the temporary (but weeks long) care of relatives. A vet autopsied the dog and found massive infection. I don't remember the details. Years later, during another move, the cat died, and a vet speculated that it might have been "bumped" by a passing car and not been killed immediately. The cat had no visible injuries and no autopsy was performed.

    Someone above said cats chase mice, dogs chase cats. Dogs also eat mice.

    I could write a few pages about all the wild mice in my life. But I'm not thinking at this point that exposure to mice made me sick. I have every reason to think I was infected by another human (my mother).

    I suspect that all my questions about causation and transmission are not going to be answered before I keel over in a sudden death that puzzles veterinarians.
     
  9. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    I was in direct contact with lab mice and got bitten a few times.

    I have also a close relative who committed suicide because doctors would not believe she was sick. They were saying it was "all in her mind". But, that was a very long time ago and I don't think anyone knew about CFS back then.

    I also got very sick after periods of severe stress (surgery that went wrong). My dog also died because I had left her (going to university in another town).

    You should not feel responsible for something you didn't know about. It's not like you voluntarily infected your dog and cat... and we are not too sure that it is even the case.

    I would really like to know if the dogs showing CFS-like symptoms are infected with XMRV. It would be a way to show that we have something in common that makes all of us (dogs and humans) sick. But, maybe what I'm saying does not make sense at all. So, let me know if it is the case.
     
  10. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    910
    Likes:
    1,077
    There is considerable research on Feline Leukemia Virus, and even a vacine in use by veterinarians. This is substantially less similar to HMRV (XMRV, PMLV) than MLV. Diagnosing the same problem in dogs and horses is hard, because many symptoms are common to a variety of conditions.
     
  11. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

    Messages:
    870
    Likes:
    185
    Wyoming
    I have been wondering about whether or not CFIDS can affect pets too. Both my cats have been having problems digesting food and they vomit often. The eight year old cat is lethargic even for a cat. Cats have a second eye lid that you can see when they are medicated or sick. I can often see it slightly lowered on the older cat. Also she already has bad osteoarthritis (like me) and cannot jump up to her favorite spots. I have taken her to the vet and he can't find anything wrong with her. Both my cats have had all their shots and have tested negative for feline leukemia and feline AIDS.
     
  12. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    Thank you for this precision, anciendaze.
    Very interesting.
     
  13. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    So, you know for sure that they don't have feline leukemia nor AIDS but something else.
    It's too bad your vet can't do anything to help your cat.
     
  14. Frank

    Frank Senior Member

    Messages:
    848
    Likes:
    8
    Europe
    My previous cat also died after weird symptoms, i heard the vet called it "Cat AIDS"
     
  15. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    Is there such a disease as "CAT AIDS" or is it just a name vets give when they don't know what the animals are suffering from?
     
  16. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    In the first study (see above), we can read:

    Although Chronic Fatigue Syndrome has never been clinically described in dogs, prevalence surveys indicate that a remarkable number (97%) of patients with CFS had animal contact, particularly with dogs and cats, and that 75% of these pets appeared sick, with signs and symptoms which mimicked CFS in humans, strongly suggesting a zoonotic transmission (Glass,1998).

    That is a lot! 75%... suggesting a zoonotic transmission...
    a virus, maybe?
     
  17. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    910
    Likes:
    1,077
    There is a real Feline AIDS caused by FeIV. It was known before human AIDS, and is now treatable because this was an animal model of AIDS available early on in developing treatments. I know someone who is treating a cat with this condition. It is a real problem because they must keep it separate from other cats.

    This is one possible host for novel pathogens transmitted to humans. In the wild a cat with FeAIDS would die quickly because of impaired hunting skills. Domestic cats can survive even if they are very sick, as long as someone else operates the can opener. Nothing prevents an infected cat from carrying multiple viruses.
     
  18. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    Very interesting, anciendaze!
    Thanks for the info.
     
  19. Merry

    Merry Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Likes:
    615
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
    mice pets

    In another thread I read that in prostate cancer research in China, the search for XMRV/MLVs is complicated (if that is the right word) by the fact that many Chinese men keep mice as pets.

    In the household I grew up in, the mice kept us as pets. Old farmhouse in poor repair.

    Or maybe we were lab animals, and They were running experiments.
     
  20. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes:
    57
    Ottawa, Canada
    One would think that their CFS numbers are probably higher (in China)...

    LOL - You are funny!

    Of course, we all know that it's aliens who abducted all of us and inseminated us with mouse virus to experiment on us... (lol)
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page