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Wessely Says: Even if XMRV Causes ME, "There's Nothing We're Going to Do About it"

Discussion in 'Media, Interviews, Blogs, Talks, Events about XMRV' started by justinreilly, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    "You know, you’ve been hit by a car; we don’t need to know the number plate of the car that hit you in order to rehabilitate someone who’s been in a road traffic accident."


    Isn't he missing a stage in this analogy, the one between the accident and rehabilitation, you know, where you assess and treat the injuries?
  2. Lily

    Lily *Believe*

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    A waste of resources when you know the treatment is always the same, regardless of the injury:)
  3. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Well said!
  4. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    To quote Wessely in this podcat: 'I'm afraid the world is more complex than that.'
  5. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Keep repeating the truth to the right people and we will win.

    Amazing post, parvofighter.

    His horrible words will rock the world, if we keep showing them to the media and trying to interest them as much as we can. Wessely and co.'s strategy of repeating lies over and over until they're believed cuts both ways. There are millions more of us than them. If we keep repeating the truth in an engaging way to the media over and over, eventually many more of them will sit up and listen and expose this scam and that will lead to real change It's going slowly now, but there is gathering momentum. There will be a 'tiping point' where all of a sudden there is big interest in this scandal. We need to keep publicizing the scam to the media to get to this point, even if, in the moment, it seems pointless because they're not listening to us enough.

    Also thanks to those informing us that BMJ is state sponsored- as with some of the charities, this explains alot. I am a huge fan of socialized medicine and am glad it is coming to the US in a form. But this sort of control of medical thought by Wessely and co. thru the govt is very sobering.
  6. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    They are desparate to close the book on xmrv, desparate to defend their territory. In a weird way this is good news, means they feel seriously threatened and on their hind legs.

    If another positive xmrv study comes out things they will get very nasty, they will bite harder.
  7. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    My favorite one-word description for Wessely: disingenuous.
  8. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Wessley strikes me as a sociopath

    Exactly! This is why we lawyers are rightly hated- for often being disingenuous. Wessely is like the guy from "Thank you for Smoking"- a shyster who can make people believe he's telling the truth, cares about people's welfare and being reasonable. This kind of person is the most dangerous. Wessely seems to me to be a sociopath, because this is what they're like- they are amoral and feel manipulation of others for their own aggrandizement is a virtue.
  9. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    yes he uses medicolegalese, undefined ambiguous terms which change meaning with context. He can pretend his terms have whatever meaning he chooses , the image that comes into my mind is slimy and slithering
  10. parvofighter

    parvofighter Senior Member

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    Why the Hit-and-Run Car Analogy Sucks...or... the education of Wesseley and BMJ

    Remember that favorite car accident analogy presented by Wesseley in the BMJ podcast?
    I just stumbled across an article on retroviral biology that may assist in the good doctor's education. It just hit the nail on the head, while being nicely consistent with SW's limited frame of reference:
    From: http://www.biologynews.net/archives...nse_needed_for_hitandhide_cancer_viruses.html


    "Retroviruses such as HIV and HTLV-1 don't hit-and-run,
    they hit-and-hide.

    They slip into host cells and insert their own DNA into the cell's DNA,
    and from this refuge they establish an infection that lasts a lifetime."

    There... now I can live with a simple car analogy to describe this complex neuro-immune disease. Think that'll be simple enough for the CBT/GET business "leaders"?;)
  11. guest

    guest Guest

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    I completely agree.
  12. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I think that part of Wessely's attitude is explained by the relationship that similar doctors have with insurance companies. Many of the Wessleyite doctors work either as consulatants for insurance companies in advisory roles or as examining doctors for people with claims.

    It's apt then that he used the "hit by a car" example.

    In the UK the Wessleyites help the insurance industry and this means that they can disallow claims for physical injuries by claiming that they are psychological injuries and treatable, that the witness is lying about their injuries, and they claim that they can get people back to work (hence the move on and rehabilitate).

    This saves insurance companies a lot of money. I know because this is what happened to me (different doctor in my case but same psychobabble).
  13. flex

    flex *****

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    Wessely says, "maybe people will laugh at our treatment plan in a hundred years". I've got news for you Wessely. They would have laughed at it a hundred years ago, we are laughing now and they will still be laughing in another hundred years.

    That makes you two hundred years stupid and you are not even sixty five yet!!!

    When they were casting for the Muppet Show I am sure you were first choice to play Kermit, until they found a real frog. It was a close run thing though!!
  14. Knackered

    Knackered Guest

    Here's another one from this time last year.
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126997.000-mind-over-body.html

    Polite words fail me.

    Are you talking about the Rosenhan experiment?
  15. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

  16. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    "Dr Crippen" has retired from the NHS.

    He continues to blog (though his postings do not attract as many comments as they used to) and he continues with his Guardian column or at least, he had an article published last week. The blurb on the Guardian site has not been amended to reflect his retired NHS status and it's not known for how long the Guardian might retain him as a columnist, now he's no longer a practising GP.


    As Min says, one of his most recent Guardian pieces had included a bash at Fibromyalgia.

    "Dr Crippen's" posting announcing his retirement from the NHS is here:

    http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2010/03/joys-of-retirement-bring-on-scooter.html
    Sunday, March 07, 2010

    The joys of retirement : bring on the scooter

    "A short while ago, I retired."

    [...]

    "So, after much thought, and some regret, I have resigned from the GMC. I'm no longer registered. I am no longer a practising doctor and I am not allowed to practise."

    "I have retired earlier than many doctors, and that has had repercussions on my pension, which is not as big as it might have been. It's hard to get 40 years in as a doctor anyway and, because I had done law before medicine, I was a particularly late starter. But I will not starve, and I am luckier than many."

    "The GMC tell me I'm still entitled to call myself "doctor" - even if you are no longer registered with the GMC, they cannot take your qualifications away from you. You are still a "doctor" albeit non-pracitsing. I've never been the sort of doctor who signs in at hotels using the title, so that is of little interest to me..."

    [From the Comments to the above posting]

    "And it is not a spoof. I really am an ex-doctor now and have been for a few weeks. I did take several months of NHS BLOG DOCTOR a few years ago; I guess I was "blogged out" but I did not start the rumours that I was dead, or have been committed, or was being dried out somewhere. The truth was far more boring. I just stayed away from the internet for 3 months."

    ---------------

    I understand "Dr Crippen" was a senior partner in his practice. He told his readers some time ago, that he was on a salary of 75% of 155K pa. One does not give up that kind of salary lightly, especially with four teenagers to educate.

    I suspect that a political issue within his practice, perhaps relating to forthcoming changes that were not to his taste has prompted his decision to quit earlier than he might otherwise have done.

    "Dr Crippen" did not do much in the way of research for his postings around ME and CFS which have been ill-informed and have often contained errors and misconceptions, as well as being intensely provocative.


    Min mentions "Dr Crippen's" love of the phrase "ME militants".

    In this posting, last year, following the publication of the Lombardi Science paper, he wrote:

    http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2009/10/myalgic-encephalomyelitis-me-science.html

    Myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) : science, quackery & mental illness

    "The militant wing of the Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME) brigade broke out the champagne when a recent article in Science reported that a retrovirus had been found in 67% of ME patients compared to under 4% of the general population. Sadly, the study only involved just over 100 patients and is thus inconclusive..."

    in which the embeded link was for Jodi Bassett's site http://www.ahummingbirdsguide.com/whatisme.htm

    It was suggested to him that rather than make assumptions that Jodi Bassett would be one of those celebrating in response to the Lombardi study, he should have first approached Jodi and her colleagues for their position on XMRV.

    He made no comment, of course, and the link remains unamended.

    I see a colleague of Jodi's has had a Rapid Response published (6 March 10) on the BMJ site in relation to ME, CFS, the use of "ME/CFS" and "CFS/ME", with some references to XMRV:

    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/340/feb11_1/c738#232323

    "The incubation period for ME, G93.3, is only approx 3-7 days, which effectively eliminates many 'causes' considered for 'CFS', including CMV, EBV, and XMRV, which have much longer incubation periods."

    "Those of us who actually are ME-defined (Ramsey, Hyde) are deeply distressed by these behaviours; these illogical and unscientific approaches. By this 'highjacking' of our extremely debilitating Neurogenic disease - simply to try to make theirs "sound more serious". How unscrupulous!"

    "P.S. The WPI's XMRV study was NOT done on any ME-defined (Hyde, Ramsey) G93.3, patients."​


    So, I'm afraid "Dr Crippen" now has considerably more time on his hands. Let's hope he spends some of that time better informing himself around the illness before penning future articles on ME.

    Someone in the comment section has suggested he might consider entering politics. :(:(:( No, no, please someone, find him something else to keep him occupied.
  17. Knackered

    Knackered Guest

  18. Knackered

    Knackered Guest

    Sorry, I have just re-read what you had said again, I thought you were speaking about the criticisms of psychiatric evaluation and care in the 70's. Silly me.

    This is what I was referring to, I'm sure you'll find it interesting Maarten: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
  19. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I think that it may be a shadow or an unshaven stubble look.

    When I met him he had no moustache
  20. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    i think what he has got is aparticulat kind of avoidant attachment pattern resulting froma psychologically or physically absent parent. fesr of rejection need for adoration model of manipulation

    masogeny etc fit this particular pattern.I am of course as you probably realise a very neurobiological psychologist looking at neural networks representational models etc but ridicule will hurt if done correctly glad you are back

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