The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Wessely meets Stephen Hawking

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by slysaint, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    No mention of anything ME related but few 'interesting' remarks:
    "The first was explained by the title of the meeting, an open discussion about the future of the NHS"
    "It was lively—you don’t normally get heckling at medical meetings."
    "Heckling apart, it worked well. Sarah Wollaston MP and Chair of the Health Select Committee demonstrated why she was re elected to that critical post unopposed, showing grace under pressure, as indeed did other seasoned campaigners such as Nigel Edwards, Philippa Whitford, and Clare Gerada (aka my wife)."

    "But as I refused to be drawn into the “are you with Hunt or Hawking?” debate, all of the interviews ended up on the cutting room floor. Except one. Advice for when you have something you want to say, but the media don’t want to hear—go live."
    http://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2017/08/22/simon-wessely-stephen-hawking-and-his-a-love-letter-to-the-nhs/


    he's clearly enjoying his new role as President of the Royal Society of Medicine:vomit:
     
  2. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    What? Wessely lacking moral fibre? Surely not!

    This guy is a total nothing, and I think he knows it. He would have achieved just as much in his career if he had just been put in front of an audience and told to do his ´thing.´

    ´Blah blah blah, reasoned debate, blah blah blah, neurasthenia.´
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    That's funny, I thought he supported making slurs and accusations against patients when anyone disagrees with him :rolleyes: And he has yet to engage in any reasoned debate with those who disagree with him regarding ME/CFS.
     
  4. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    President of the Royal Society of Medicine...?!
    That PROVES how corrupt and moral bankrupt, and contemptuous of patients, the British Medical Establishment is.

    I wouldn't employ that man as a toilet cleaner, I WOULD however, sentence him to a life time "counting trees" in a gulag. :p
     
  5. Philipp

    Philipp

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    So, the primary thing about what Hawking said after the introductory joke that is reported in this blog seems to be:

    'Hawking then spoke about the future of the NHS, citing increased commercialisation and privatisation, and his fear that we were drifting towards an American style marketisation, in which only those with insurance get care.'

    Sir Spin-A-Lot referred to Hawking's speech saying 'What he gave us was a love letter to the NHS'.

    I guess it would be interesting (or depressing) to get a transcript of the event if one wanted to waste the time to see if this is another 'nothing to see here', but I don't think even any of us are that bored.
    It just... bothers me that this (...yet again) gives off the vibe of an ALS-patient who received good care and is warning about an imminent/already happening future where this will conceivably not be the norm anymore being brushed off, because, you know, that's the Spinners standard MO and him NOT lying in some way or swaying the discussion away from what otherwise would have been the central piece of any discussion that was to be had here (development of the NIH vs HAWKING VS HUNT) would actually be a deviation from his standard behaviour.
     
  6. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    Links to other reports to speech:

    Stephen Hawking's opinion on NHS:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-40990288/stephen-hawking-i-wouldn-t-be-here-without-the-nhs
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/18/nhs-scientist-stephen-hawking

    Hunt's 'correction': http://www.itv.com/news/2017-08-19/...herry-picked-research-to-justify-nhs-reforms/

    More on the dust up between Hunt and Hawking:

    https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/13400

    I say: 'Cherry picking' no longer just an exercise in filling your bowl.

    As usual SW a shining brilliance at avoiding engaging with any real issues sidestepping having an opinion of any sort and showing us that what seems gutless is just urbane, erudite and reasonable good manners.
     
  7. Philipp

    Philipp

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    EXACTLY this. Also, how differently the bmj-blog and the guardian article report on Hawkings speech just by how things are phrased and what the Spindoctor apparently omitted (I don't think it is quite clear how close the guardian piece is on what Hawking actually said at the event word for word, but then again, why should it be vastly different) is pretty much what I expected.
     
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  8. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    Ive just read his blog .....feel quite sickened by it to be honest, but pleased that someone of Hawkings calibre is speaking out

    The bit that I find most revolting from the spin blog was this bit:


    "If Hawking had ended his speech half way, Mr Hunt would no doubt have been on his feet alongside the audience—it was only the second time I have seen a standing ovation at a medical conference. And likewise, Hawking himself acknowledged that he had found hospitals to be slower at the weekend, and that it was entirely legitimate to look in depth at this issue, although of course he did strongly disagree with how that had been taken forward."

    So : cast doubt about the second part being not worthy of a standing ovation, And infer that Stephen Hawking is being contradictory and unreasonable.

    Trouble is this doesn't work Sir Simon .....when the whole of the U.K. can see the mess in the NHS for themselves and Stephen Hawking is rated as a national treasure and one of the most intelligent people on the planet.
     
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  9. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    I have read an article, actually several articles about Stephen Hawking died a long time ago and was replaced by a new, stand-in Stephen Hawking. I actually found it quite plausible. Not a conspiracy, very real to me.

    I also thought that Hawking's health care provider is funded by an American foundation called MacArthur Foundation, not NHS.
     
  10. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    The other side.
    So what you're saying is we shouldn't believe Stephen Hawking because he has false mortality beliefs (i.e. he believes that he is alive) and the apparent ability to spread his delusions regarding his mortality, and possibly other things?
     
  11. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    He died so he does not exists anymore. We are believing to someone else speaking through a machine if we believe in "Stephen Hawking". So basically anything goes, including what you are saying above.
     
  12. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    @Wonko

    Just FYI, I believe that here is the source for the Hawking is dead meme: http://milesmathis.com/hawk3.pdf

    And also the author appears to have written a book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Un-Unified...HKI_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503609692&sr=1-1

    From the guardian article: "This problem goes beyond the weekend effect. The NHS is in a crisis, and one that has been created by political decisions. These political decisions include underfunding and cuts, privatising services, the public sector pay cap, the new contract imposed on junior doctors, and removal of the student nurses’ bursary. Political decisions such as these cause reductions in care quality, longer waiting lists, anxiety for patients and staff, and dangerous staff shortages. Failures in the system of privatised social care for disabled and elderly people have placed an additional burden on the NHS."

    I think it's safe to say that these are important problems for the future of the NHS no matter which Hawking said them.
     
  13. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    I just don't see what they have in common. Hawking works with black holes, which can absorb information but can take forever to release it, and Sir Simon works with the psychiatry department at King's College, London which...

    Never mind.
     
  14. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    I`m pretty certain Stephen Hawking is alive lmao
     
  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    What an idiot. Anyone who refuses to be drawn on this debate must be a fully paid up toady. The similarity to the President of the USA gets stronger every day - blame both sides. It's even a family affair, with the wife included.

    Fortunately the Royal Society of Medicine is a bit of a joke with no political power.
     
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  16. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member

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    Did Wessely apply for this role or was he just nominated by adoring colleagues as he was for the john Maddox prize?
    What is it about Wessely that people in medicine think is so great ? Apart from some work with the military and being an advocate for the wonders of psychiatry what has he achieved? And look at his failures - CFS, GWS, Camelford

    When I saw this I thought Wessely would enjoy the association with the story. I wonder if his high standing and media presence and knighthood are why there's so little criticism of the effect of the Wessely school of thought on ME progress the past few years when it's glaringjy obvious it did harm ?

    It makes me cringe to see him properly respecting the severity of Hawkings illness and his struggles when I've never seen one properly caring or compassionate word or advocacy from him for the severely affected within our community.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
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  17. JohnM

    JohnM Senior Member

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    West Yorkshire
  18. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    He has to because Hawking is too big to bully. He may think that a bit of CBT and GET would have Hawking out of that wheelchair in no time, but he's smart enough to keep his mouth shut unless he's talking about a vulnerable and easily bullied / controlled population where he's got the establishment to back him up such as CFS, GWS, Camelford etc. He's not going to take any risks by taking on anyone who can defend themselves, he'll just "refuse to be drawn".

    The arrogance of the fellow - It was his first official duty as president and all he had to do was introduce the speakers, he was just the stuffed shirt representing the host. But no, turns out it was all about him and whether Hawking could "draw" him or not. Did Hawking know who he was or give a toss about what he thought? Did anyone ask him to express an opinion? And what was his wife doing on the panel - were they short of volunteers?

    Clicking on the "Clare Gerada" link that Wessely helpfully adds in his article, we get this:

    How marvellous. No mention of the fact that doctors with M.E. have to keep quiet about it because they're scared of receiving the same compassion their M.E. patients get under the NHS, all thanks to her hubby.
     
  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    He excels at playing politics, and pulling strings behind the scenes.
     
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  20. JoanDublin

    JoanDublin Senior Member

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    Just thought I'd throw this in here. I had a small amount of vomit in my mouth when I saw that the master of pseudo-science was introducing and fawning over the master of science. The irony overload was almost too much to bear so I felt the need to tweet.

     

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