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Wessely in the Guardian on the 'drugs v talking' debate- March 29 2016

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by sarah darwins, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    This opinion piece by Simon Wessely is essentially about mental illness and approaches to it. He's mostly bigging up psychiatry (and psychiatrists), but there's at least one interesting ME thread in the comments section, a bit of which I'll quote below. Comments can be ordered by 'recommendation' (= likes).

    Edit - LINK TO ARTICLE: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/29/drugs-talking-mental-health

    One line in the main article, however, really caught my eye:

    One commenter — sirebrum — picks up on that:

    Another commenter — gherkingirl — writes:

     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  2. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Cornwall, UK
  3. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    It´s just a bad translation from Idiotese - it should read ´Psychiatrists are pragmatists who use the best approach for an individual patient, without being too constrained by thought.´
     
    Comet likes this.
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    LOL - psychiatrists are amazing!
     
    Grigor, snowathlete, Bob and 5 others like this.
  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

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    In their own amazing minds, anyhow :rofl:
     
  6. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    This is so barbaric, what can one say? :vomit:
     
  7. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

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    Psychiatrists are dogmatists who abuse individual patients using the blanket approach, without being too constrained by any specific thought.
     
    TiredSam and Amaya2014 like this.
  8. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Translation: we have a psychiatric diagnosis for every symptom and patient.
     
  9. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    One-stop shopping for even the most discerning of insurance carriers...
     
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  10. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    We all know that the only school of thought that they know is B(P)S.
     
    jimells likes this.
  11. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Yes they do, and we'd like some please, so if you wouldn't mind getting out of the way ...
     
  12. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

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    Why limit it to symptoms and patients.
     
    Snow Leopard likes this.
  13. Quote should be

    "We are charlatan bastards, who'll come up with anything that sounds good, because it makes money for us and out sponsors (TM),
    the government and insurance companies like us because our bullshit costs nothing, unlike real medical treatments,
    and aren't we just wonderful and you know you have to love and obey us, hm?"


    :p

    Wessely candid photo taken with Anti-B.S-Kirlian lens

    [​IMG]

    :sluggish:
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  14. 5150

    5150 Senior Member

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    Try to take Heart. I know that is easily said, but I know how it goes,too. I Hope They Rot in Hell.
     
  15. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    Wessely was on the radio a few days ago being interviewed about this. It brought home to me very strongly the nature of the problem. If you knew nothing about the subject he would appear to be a lucid, reasonably genial if perhaps somewhat glib, individual who would certainly seem persuasive.

    It reminded me of the discussions which arose concerning the character of those who rise to the top of business and thrive whilst ruining their companies and shareholders. The characteristics which enable people to get to the top are not necessarily those that would enable them to do the job. Perhaps this is a rule of general application. We do not need to detail here the nature of those characteristics.
     
  16. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    I’m sure Sir Simon, as a fully paid-up member of the Islington Blairite sect, would be horrified but he often reminds me of Margaret Thatcher. She excelled at styling hers as the lone voice of common sense in a world of unreason. To her, everyone else had ideologies, she just had good judgment. She honestly couldn’t see that her politics were as ideological and value-laden as anyone else’s. I’m pretty sure SW has a similar outlook — genuinely believing that the BPS view of illness carries no ideological lading, that the assumption of an element of mental illness in a case of unexplained symptoms is “just common sense”.
     
  17. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    Well, he's certainly not for turning........unless forced. Unlike Thatcher he would understand the reference in the script.
     
    Sean likes this.
  18. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Sales rhetoric 101 - make a lot of statements that sound reasonable when used generally. Never mention the specifics unless they would be generally supported. When challenged on specifics refer to the more general statements and point out nearly everyone agrees with them. Claim that the questioners are being unreasonable. Point out that none of the (general) statements have any major disagreements.

    BPS is largely promoted by making general sweeping statements, that are typically viewed as correct. However as general statements move to specifics the rationality of the argument is lost. A similar issue occurs with Evidence Based Medicine. Good ideas, bad execution.
     
    Cheshire, Webdog, Esther12 and 4 others like this.
  19. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    I doubt they'd be too horrified; the Blairites rather admire Thatcher, I think, they like the way she makes the world sound simple and that anyone who disagrees is just doing it wrong. But I do now want to see Sir Simon holding the PACE edition of The Lancet aloft, shouting "Rejoice at that news!"
     
    sarah darwins and Chrisb like this.
  20. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    Cue for a whole new set of images of the Belgrano.
     

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