Waking up with fight or flight response -- excess sulfur?

[wondrous]

Doctors Data and Trace Elements Inc (TEI) should be fine. Analytical Research Labs might be ok too... But honestly I'm no too up on what companies are best these days. Over a decade ago Cutler used Doctors Data, so I suppose they would the first place I would look.

I use seeking health molybdenum, but I'm not sure that they are any better quality than most other brands.

Thanks @aaron_c! I really appreciate that information and all of your input on this subject matter.

 

[wondrous]

@wondrous,

Diagnosing/ruling out WD is really complicated...it's a genetic disorder that causes copper to build up in the liver, so most docs think of it only as a liver disease, but it has a neurological presentation and a psychiatric presentation too, because sometimes the liver spits excess copper into other organs, like the brain, so it can cause anxiety, depression, dystonia, all sorts of neurological symptoms, even though LFTs might be normal.

The first tests usually done are 24hr urinary copper test - along with ceruloplasmin and serum copper - and also a slit lamp exam with an ophthalmologist to check for Kayser-Fleischer rings.

Even someone with normal test results can have it though. A liver biopsy is the only real way to rule it out. NB: Ceruloplasmin is an acute phase reactant so can be falsely elevated when inflammation is present.

I personally think that people can have unbound copper problems without having WD. (Eg, I think I have a malabsorption problem.)

You have me thinking now, @antherder. While I don't suspect I have Wilson's Disease, excessive copper may be something to consider with me, as I've been eating a lot of mushrooms and avocados lately. This could explain the metallic taste I've had in my mouth as of late.

I was looking at Andy Cutler's work, and he recommends testing for copper through RBC copper, urine copper, and hair analysis. I think I'll work this route when I see the doctor.

 

[aaron_c]

You know, that whole CBS thing is so confusing. I hear some people saying it's helped them, and then other people say it's complete hogwash.

I suspect that people are helped by Yasko's CBS recommendations because some of them do help. Like Valentijn though, I think that Yasko's story of why these interventions help (including the part about CBS C699T being problematic) is wrong.

Back to an earlier topic: Sulfur deficiency can impact copper, as the storage protein for copper and zinc, metallothionein, utilizes a lot of cysteine, which is a sulfur-containing amino acid. I think my metallothionein genes are less effective than most people's, so it may be that for most people sulfur deficiency causes other problems before it impacts metallothionein levels. For myself, however, I have noticed that sulfur status has at least a mild impact on copper capacity.

 

[Learner1]

I'm not at my best today to parse through all of this, but I suspect your problem has some other dimensions. A couple of thoughts first:

1) digging in to your B vitamin status, folate and methionine cycles, and transsulfuration pathway is important in getting to the bottom of your puzzle

2) you need B1 along with the molybdenum to get rid of sulfur.

3) heavy metal toxicity could be related to the metallic taste in your mouth

4) this link may hold some answers for you, too - be sure to click on the links to the previous articles he mentions - as I recall there were helpful videos:

http://www.beyondmthfr.com/side-high-oxalates-problems-sulfate-b6-gut-methylation/

On a more cogent day, I'd explain more, but I'm sure someone else can chime in.

 

[Valentijn]

What is it about her research, or lack thereof, that suggests excess sulfur has not be scientifically attributed to a CBS regulation?

She certainly hasn't published anything about it, so I doubt she's done any such research. There are some images she has produced in her slides, or similar material, showing a print-out of other researchers' studies. The notes hand-written on the top page of those print-outs indicate that she has very badly misinterpreted unrelated research as the basis for her CBS claims.

I suspect she uses the SNPs which she does because she was able to get them tested cheaply and easily. I suspect she doesn't update the test to use SNPs which have an impact because the current bunch already does a good job of diagnosing everyone with a problem, which can be treated by buying her supplements.

 

[xena]

I take a whole lot of molybdenum--1.5 mg per day, more than most people--and I haven't become all that copper deficient. A little bit, but I think that's more to do with (partially genetic) problems with metallothionein (storage protein for both copper and zinc), so until that gets fixed I will always be a little deficient in either copper or zinc.

You can test for copper deficiency with a hair mineral analysis. Although there will be some situations where a hair mineral analysis might not accurately reflect your body's copper burden, most of the time it will be right, and it is still much more indicative than

If you decide to start taking molybdenum I would take it around night time (only because it might make you tired at first) and start with a lower dose and work up. I can tell when I have enough molybdenum because a certain kind of brain fog will lift as I take more--until I get to my ideal dose, when more molybdenum does nothing further for brainfog but does tend to cause some gout (it's quickly reversible--just take the dose back down).

Wow, that's exactly what happened to me with the gout and everything. Unfortunately, I still get shitty symptoms when I eat thiols again and still can't tolerate mthf... So trying CBS rna... And possibly bh4 to help with the ammonia issue