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Lessons from ME/CFS: Finding Meaning in the Suffering
If you're aware of my previous articles here at Phoenix Rising then it's pretty clear that I don't generally spend my time musing upon the philosophy of the disease. I find it better to spend my time reading research and trying my best to break it down to its core elements and write...
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Wahls diet, mitochondria

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by madietodd, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Madie, it's always a never-ending modification program, wouldn't you say? :) --- Just wanted to mention that I'm doing a fair amount of research on Liposomal Technology, and am particularly interested in liposomal curcumin and Vitamin C, both of which are anti-inflammatory. The liposomal technology makes them many times more so, as much as 10-20x more so. Just thought I'd mention it in case you might find it interesting.

    I'm trying to learn how to do this for myself (MUCH cheaper), as it seems applicable to many different kinds of supplements. This technology is also being used more and more by pharamceutical companies to make their medications far more available to the body. --- Happy "recovery" from some of your holidays' indulgences. Given that most people do the same, do you suppose there's a connection between that and the "start of the flu season"? Just a thought... :angel:
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
    L'engle and madietodd like this.
  2. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I have chronic low blood sugar so I need to use something to bring it up. I tried various diets to get this under control but they made me too weak. When I checked my bg level was between 67-80 when I tried the modified atkins diet.

    On my last day it never went above 67 and I was pale and weak until i ate a pear to bring it up. I never tried that again.

    DEX4 is the most effective method I've found so far when it comes to bringing it up quickly. I can usually think again within a few minutes. : ) I need 2-3 always. I'm using tangerines now because they're in season and have nutrients.

    I get the cvs dye free orange ones.

    Of course if that's not my problem it doesn't help.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  3. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I'm very interested in liposomal vitamin C if it improves digestibility. I can't handle any form of vitamin C.

    Right as the kids were leaving, I couldn't tell if I had their flu, was crashy, or was just exhausted. I have no doubt that poor eating + insufficient rest opened that door.
  4. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hi again. I forgot to say that I have hyperinsulinemia, high insulin, dx via gtt plus insulin. The test itself helped me see just how horrible I felt when my glucose was adjusting. Fun fun. tc .. x
  5. Radio

    Radio *****

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    The Wahls diet is great, but can be problematic if you have a CBS upregulation. The Wahls diet also disregards the oxalate content in foods like spinach that can damage the kidneys. Check out how i recovered from CFS...

    This is my story...
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs.27280/
    madietodd likes this.
  6. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Hi, I have the same problem with vitamin C until i found Twinlabs Allergy-C, This is the purest and highest quality obtainable Buffered (Corn Free) Vitamin C derived from sago palm. It's great if you have mast-cell allergy issue.

    http://www.iherb.com/Twinlab-Allergy-C-Caps-200-Capsules/2316

    madietodd likes this.
  7. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    @Dreambirdie asked elsewhere about inflammatory foods other than the organ meats. Turkey and chicken are inflammatory, duck isn't. Hamburger is, lots of cuts of beef aren't. Canned pink salmon is wildly anti-inflammatory, so I eat that for breakfast every day. Grains, starches, sugars, some legumes, and potatoes are inflammatory. Many fruits are too, but not all.

    It'a always hard to say for sure why a change helps, but I feel a lot better. I"m not eating super low-carb, as I eat a cup or two of fruit a day, and sweet potato.

    So I'm picking my fruits, vegetables, and proteins carefully, and still paying attention to eating from the color groups. I haven't worked seaweed back into my diet, but I am in the habit of making and using bone broth. This feels like a healthy melding.
    L'engle likes this.
  8. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    @madietodd Is there a list for the inflammatory foods somewhere?

    I tend to avoid grains, potatoes, fruit and sugars. I eat beef and lamb, as well as eggs, but don't eat poultry very often. Strange how only certain cuts of beef are inflammatory. I am lately enjoying collards on a daily basis. Can't get enough of them. Yum!
  9. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Turkey and chicken are inflammatory, duck isn't.

    The skin in poultry is high in histamines. It can cause a mast-cell inflammatory response. When we consume a moderate portion of free range chicken or turkey (without the skin), the inflammatory response will be mitigated. Check out, The Low Histamine Chef Diet...There some great information on anti-inflammatory foods.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
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  10. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I start with The Inflammation-Free Diet Plan (Monica Reinagel). Then once I get an idea of what I plan to eat, I go to nutritiondata.com, which also has IF ratings but lets me get more precise measurements. Reinagel measures in half-cups, which isn't useful to me as my scale.

    Thanks to your question, I just found Reinagel's website which has a good search tool: http://inflammationfactor.com/look-up-if-ratings/

    I found a list of inflammatory foods on nutritiondata, but I was logged in so the link might not work:
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000991000000000000000.html
    I found it under TOOLS -> Nutritional Target Map Search -> Related Search Results -> Lowest IF Rating
    A negative number means it's inflammatory.
    Hanna and Radio like this.
  11. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    This strikes me as odd, since hamburger can be made from so many cuts of beef.
  12. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Maybe they add something when they grind the beef? Beef tallow is negative. There are a few cuts of beef that are inflammatory......I don'f understand it!

    The goal isn't to avoid all inflammatory foods anyway. It's to keep the daily total on the high positive side. Since I already avoid grains, most starches, and sugars, this is easy to do.
  13. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Of course I can't find the link, but I read somewhere in the last six months that the info on the nutritiondata site may be very innacurate. I'll post the link if I find it in the next day or two. It really doesn't make sense that hamburger is okay, when other cuts aren't.
  14. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Some of the values are different on Reinagel's site. She has a disclaimer that she is no longer associated with nutritiondata, and that ND's research is out of date. So thanks to this discussion I'm going to Reinagel's site first now, and using nutritiondata only to translate measurements in cups into grams.

    I can't make sense of the beef issue either, unless something is typically added when making hamburger. Grass fed hamburger is +4. Since regular ground beef is only slightly inflammatory, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm not counting points at that level.
  15. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I was thinking the non digestible parts found in ground beef would make it inflammatory. Ground beef sits in my digestive tract forever.

    But I can eat grass fed steak .. : )

    On a lighter note ... I'm making omelettes with lamb (baked with onions, garlic ginger and pimetos), asparagus and salsa. I've been cheating and eating a little tortilla with this but it's not necessary.
    madietodd likes this.
  16. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    I just want to say one thing... if i should have listened to Low Oxalate diet, Low sulfur diet ( so no cabbage family, broccoli, onions and so on), No Veg from nightshade family remains no veg at all, maybe just lettuce and zucchini.
    If you put in not much fruit because of fructose, not the fruit with high glicemic index, no gluten, no dairy, no cereals... what is supposed to eat a person? i Think that eating is far more complex than just point a thing and ban the entire food because of that only thing.
    I'm a fan of moderation, anyway i eat gluten and dairy free :p
  17. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    @joshi81,

    Imho you're confusing the exchange of dietary info with strict dietary advice.

    This thread is for those who WANT to follow Dr Wahls protocol at least most of the time.

    Info on oxalates may or may not pertain to others but seeing as how Dr Wahls includes massive amounts of foods that are high in oxalates in her program, it's best to know possible consequences.

    tc .. x
  18. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    yes i agree i did not wanted to say that any advice is non-sense (i'm concerned about high oxalate too) i just wanted to say that there are a lot of person like me that when start a diet try to do it very strictly and if one should listen the advice of everyone and apply it strictly would eat nothing ... it's a way to say to take all the advices and relax without apply it strictly.
    dannybex likes this.
  19. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    @joshi81,


    imho it's important to stay within your comfort zone whether you're experimenting with diets, supplements or drugs.

    That is unless you're comfortable living on Cheetos and Snickers bars. ; )

    Tc ... x
  20. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I don't really understand genetics, but a while ago I studied my Genetic Genie results enough to see that I don't have a problem with sulfur.

    I've tried lots and lots of ways of eating through my decades of illness. As Wayne said at the top of this page, "it's always a never-ending modification program, wouldn't you say?" It's typical of me that I did Wahls strictly for a few months (until Thanksgiving and Christmas floored me), and then shifted. I suddenly realized that my cytokine results from a year ago (Dr. Rey) showed ginormous inflammation issues. Um, I can work with that! The non-gluten grains I've been baking with are more inflammatory than wheat, so.......that's interesting.

    So yeah, this process involves each of us looking at our test results and our sensitivities......and our LIVES, for goodness sakes! I couldn't have done this diet 5 years ago.
    L'engle and xchocoholic like this.

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