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Wahls diet, mitochondria

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by madietodd, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hmmm. Great question. I didn't learn about oxalates until after I got my first kidney stone that was too big to pass.

    Nowadays, I know I'm getting too many oxalates if I have urinary symptoms like trouble urinating, frequency, leaking etc. I also get pelvic pain from high oxalate foods.

    If I'd known these symptoms were from high ox foods, I woulda been looking for these.

    hth ... x

    ps. There may be other ways of testing but I've gotten used to watching for my symptoms.

    I'm eating romain, parsley, cilantro, dandelion, pineapple, apple, seedless grapes, bananas, squash, peas ...

    Removing the stems reduces oxalates dramatically. Boiling reduces ox too. Just throw away the water. That's how i make dehydrated kale.
    SickOfSickness likes this.
  2. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    My editor is driving me nuts.

    I wanted to add that my worst high oxalate offenders are nuts and seeds.

    I'm still experimenting with taking calcium prior to eating these. Calcium binds oxalates.
    When to take it, how much and what type are keeping me confused. Due to my history of kidney stones, I don't experiment often.
    SickOfSickness likes this.
  3. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    It's been 3 weeks and I've got some steady results.

    My brain fog is completely gone, and my reaction times when driving are normal. I'm still only driving familiar roads, 20 minutes maximum one way.

    I didn't realize I was bloated until it went away. Ditto for restricted breathing.

    My sleep is changing. I wake up every 2 hours, minimum time asleep, instead of 1 hour minimum. I'm getting one longer stretch almost every night, 3-4 hours. When I wake more times, I sleep longer, up to 10 hours. It's early days yet to know if this will stick and/or improve, but these gains are despite the fact that I'm drinking coffee in the morning and sometimes tea in the afternoon.

    I suddenly lost my appetite, which happened before when I ate low carb. So I realized I hadn't eaten any fruit yesterday, and I I ate some today. That helped, but I'm not eating very much at the moment. I am sticking with OK foods.

    I was out yesterday for about 5 hours, then came home and cooked all afternoon. This morning I was tired, but not crashed, so I laid around. At 3 this afternoon I went out again, and stayed out until 7. This is a major reversal of my symptoms all summer - I've been mostly on the couch, getting out a few times a week for an hour or two.

    I want to throw in a reminder that I'm not a purist. I'm eating as nutritionally dense of a diet as I possibly can without going insane. I still eat a little dark chocolate and I don't always get those leafy greens. But I'm completely off dairy, grains, white vegetables, and eggs. Which means that compared to a month ago, I'm eating a ton of vegetables.
    L'engle, Wayne, alex3619 and 3 others like this.
  4. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I need to start pushing more raw foods. I'm thinking making smoothies might be best. I hve a blender but I dontthink it stong enough to do hard veggies. Any suggestions, about $50 budget. I've seen some of those new juicers/blenders but they look upside down. If making a smoothie do you have to turn the machine upside down and unscrew the cup so you dont spill te contents....that just doesnt make sense to me not to mention with my unpredictable muscles (sudden weakness, jerking, dificulty grasping things) I woud worry I'd make a mess. Maybe this should be a separate thread. I did a search and this looked like best fit.

    Also looking for good tasting recepies, thx
    madietodd likes this.
  5. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    One of the Ninja blenders is the best on a budget.

    You can get the one with a normal pitcher and lid instead of those upside down bullet cups. (The bullet cups are sort of small for smoothies anyway because it needs lots of room to blend.)
    madietodd and roxie60 like this.
  6. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I found that juicing, esp dark greens like parsley, provides me with more energy than blending. Macy's had their juicers on sale last year and I bought an inexpensive one just to see if it helped. Walmart may have an inexpensive one too. These aren't as efficient as the auger types but will give you an idea of how you will respond. Thrift stores may have these too.

    I just use an inexpensive personal blender
    from Walmart. Blending properly is just a matter of good blades in the right position and the Hamilton Beach personal blender has that.

    If you're watching oxalates, I found that if I pull the stems off the parsley I don't react. I had to stop beets, chard, carrots, etc due to esophageal pain the last time I tried juicing. That took months to heal and it snuck up on me. I was ok until I wasn't.

    tc ... x
    roxie60 likes this.
  7. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Congratulations @madietodd. Improvements are always so uplifting after getting a chronic illness.

    I never made it as a purist but try to stick to appr 95-98% healthy foods. It's not always possible tho on limited energy and income.

    fwiw I love coffee and chocolate and wish I didn't feel bad from these. Even small amounts make my heart race for about 24 hours. Part of me keeps justifying consuming these despite knowing the consequences. It must be my evil side. ; )

    tc ... x
    madietodd likes this.
  8. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    @roxie60 I had a vitamix for 15 years, and replaced it with a Ninja. The bullet cups screw on very well, and ARE turned upside down for blending.
    But they're too small for smoothies made with leafy greens, and unscrewing might be hard for you.

    I think any blender could handle fruit-and-greens smoothies, if nothing is frozen. What kind of hard vegetables would you want in your smoothie? I stick with kale, berries, and cantaloupe or papaya.

    What kind of recipes are you looking for? What level of cooking are you at? My cooking has become very simplified and cyclic. Roast a chicken with tons of vegetables (I do cauliflower brussels sprouts, and garlic). Freeze half the meat. Start 3-day bone broth in my $13 crock pot.

    Next day pan-fry a huge pile of red onions for about a half hour (they get sweet). Then use the same pan to cook a ton of white mushrooms with thyme and sage, again for about a half hour. While these cook, make chicken salad with the not-frozen meat. Lately mine has been curried, and I usually freeze the dark meat and make the salad out of the white meat.

    Next day pan fry cut up carrots also a half hour, with just salt. This is a good day to also steam an easy vegetable like broccoli or asparagus. If I'm feeling adventurous, I'll make meatballs in the oven.

    Next day the bone broth is done. I keep out 4 cups and freeze the rest. I fry up the chicken liver etc to add to my soups over the next 4 days.

    On each of the cooking days, I freeze what I won't eat in a few days. I use 'snack' sized zip baggies for 1/2 cup portions, and put these into gallon zip baggies before freezing. This prevents freezer burn.

    I now have well over a week of meals, by adding smoothies, and fish or hamburger as desired. The vegetables make 'instant' side dishes, or turn the bone broth into amazing soup. If you puree the cauliflower and brussels sprouts before adding to the soup, it turns creamy.

    I'm specific about the measurements because Dr. Wahls recommends a cup of bone broth daily plus a certain variety of cooked vegetables, in 1/2 cup increments.

    EDIT: Ugh, stupid memory! This last time I DID cook the chicken bones for 3 days, but it only takes 24 hours. It's beef bones that take 3 days.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
    L'engle and Wayne like this.
  9. mermaid

    mermaid Senior Member

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    Hope I can join your thread (having just read it through), as I am trying out a more Dr Wahl's approach after being Paleo for a few years. It took me a v long time to get properly into Paleo (if there is a 'proper') , but it has helped my gut issues immensely.

    So far apart from the Paleo diet approach I have added in liver for the first time in over 40 yrs. I didn't think I would ever eat it again but it's OK.

    Also I am slowly adding in more leafy greens but not measuring things, as that would really drive me mad! I am now having leafy stuff in every meal. I don't eat a lot of fruit as I don't tolerate the sugar well, but I do have a little bit.

    I haven't done bone broth though, and not sure I can get my head or energy round that. I am not sure I can source the bones from a reputable source really, though I do make stock with free range chicken from a good local farm. I might ask them if they have any bones maybe.....

    I need to take a proper look at the list I guess to see what is what. I have recently added in Chlorella as I am chelating and I gather that is on the list someone said here?

    I do a very weird smoothie in the morning with my Vitamix, and throw lots of things in including lots of salad greens, and a little beetroot, and carrot, some goat milk kefir (is that allowed on this diet?), coconut oil, nuts, seeds, and to make it taste nice some cacao. I do a big jugful and have it for breakfast and then save some for later in the day.

    Anyway it's good to share with others on the same track here.....
    I have lost a stone in weight over the summer by reducing my carbs, but it's stabilised at the moment, and I am not really losing now.
    L'engle and Wayne like this.
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    How about coleslaw made with a dairy-free mayonnaise like this one?

    I make my coleslaw by chopping the onions and cabbage with a manual chopper like this (also good for nuts) and a manual grater for the carrot or swede.
    roxie60 likes this.
  11. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    The Ninja Pulse has a normal blending container, 40 oz IIRC (and two bullet type cups). The Ninja Professional has a 72 oz container. They are at least $80, but you could find one gently used or get lucky. There are some other blenders that are less expensive. These are very good ones.
  12. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Is that mayonnaise delicious? We have one over here called Vegenaise and it's pretty horrible, to my taste.
  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I don't know - I haven't tried it. There are other brands available in the UK and I would guess in the USA too. Or you could make your own - there are lots of recipes online. I like the Plamil brand personally but don't know if you can get it outside the UK.
  14. alexa

    alexa

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    I would like to try this but i wonder how it adds upp to KDM idea of leaky gut ( as some of you have adressed) I am used to avoid fructose and fruit in general since it is supposed to feed bad bacteria, and keep the diet low in carbs. I eat mostly vegetables and meats, but i eat too much dairy (oh how i love dairy but my body does not) and have been gluten free for a couple of years now.

    I know people say that one should listen to ones body but i find this hard since i feel like shit so often and i find it hard to know if it is because i had too many carbs or if i overdid it. I do know that sugar and carb overload gives me brainfog and swollen glands. And if i don't get enough proteins i feel weird and weak.

    i love my nuts and very dark chocolate (90 %) and my coffe to stay awake... but i assume i will have to give these up...

    my life is really boring because of this disease, sometime it is hard to stick to a diet, since my coffe and chocolate is the only fun thing i have all day...
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  15. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    We're all so individual. I do fine with fruit, as long as I stick with mostly berries and papaya (I eat the seeds too). But I can't eat nightshades at all - I get arthritis overnight.

    I'm way past following any eating plan precisely. What are the foundational ideas, and how well do they fit with what I know about my body? I knew I felt better on a strict anti-candida diet, so dropping legumes and grains looked like a good fit. Vastly increasing micro-nutrients makes sense to me, and she's done all the hard research for me.....yeah, I'll try this eating plan......modified.

    Good luck if you decide to try it!
    L'engle, xchocoholic and Purple like this.
  16. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Hi I think I feel better on the candida diet too. Does this necessarily mean we have a candida problem? Have you tried treating with anti fungals?
  17. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Diflucan and Nystatin have never made a difference that I could feel. I've never had before AND AFTER gut testing. But Crook's diet made me feel much much better 10 years ago. I think I falsely attributed that to a healing of candida.
  18. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    The holidays have been steady-on full of sugar, chocolate, and gluten, and I'm feeling pretty crummy. I'm thinking about my diet again.

    I'm modifying Wahls' diet to be anti-inflammatory. I'm keeping the emphasis on trace minerals and nutritional density, and dropping some fruits and vegetables. I'm happy to report that organ meats are highly inflammatory, so I have an excuse to stop feeling guilty that I can't choke them down.

    How have you all fared through the holidays?
    L'engle and xchocoholic like this.
  19. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Gluten ? yikes. I'd be in the hospital if I ate gluten intentionally. But I'm a celiac with neuro symptoms from gluten.

    I was good most of the time but ate more garbage food than usual. There's just something about the holidays that makes it seem ok.

    I got glutenned 2 days ago. Possibly by So Delicious coconut almond bars. These are out for now.

    I'm glad to hear organ meats are inflammatory too. Somehow eating organs that clean the body never appealed to me.

    I'm using fruit, mostly tangerines, for blood glucose control. I'd been using DEX4 which works GREAT but are void of nutrients.

    We have to survive New Years Eve still. ; )

    tc ... x
    madietodd likes this.
  20. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    Please explain this blood glucose control.
    xchocoholic likes this.

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