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VSL#3 made me a little worse, but Bifidobacterium made me better

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by redo, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    VSL#3 made me a little worse, but this bifidobacterium supplement made me somewhat better. It's kinda strange, because VSL#3 contains:

    450 billion (!) freeze dried lactic acid bacteria and bifidobacteria.

    Streptococcus thermophilus
    Bifidobacterium breve
    Bifidobacterium longum
    Bifidobacterium infantis
    Lactobacillus acidophilus
    Lactobacillus plantarum
    Lactobacillus paracasei
    Lactobacillus delbrueckii, subspecies bulgaricus

    But this other bifidobacterium supplement I have been taking made me somewhat better. It contains:

    4,5 billion bacteria
    Lactobacillus acidophilus NCFM
    Lactobacillus paracasei lpc -37
    Bifidobacterium lactis Bi-07
    Bifidobacterium lactis Bi-04

    It's not all that big of a difference. Except for the dosage. One equals 100 tablets of the other.

    Anyone else who's got somewhat worse from VSL#3?
  2. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    you probably dont do well with strep. Kids with pandas have to avoid this too.
  3. Tristen

    Tristen Senior Member

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    I continued to feel better thru my month on Xifaxin, but then as soon as I started the VSL3, I got worse. Thinking it may be the dose (450 bil is way strong), I tried a 1/2 pack. Still not good. In spite of their claims that it won't trans-locate, I'm sure it does for a person like me with Leaky Gut. I think leaves may be correct about the Strep too. I'm gonna switch to Jarrow EPS, it's my favorite.
  4. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    twitpic.com/photos/SlayaDragon
    You're not the first person with CFS I've seen who has felt worse from VSL3. Certain lacto probioics seem problematic for some of us, at least during severe stages of the illness.
  5. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    Good to see it's others whom have reacted the same way.

    The cost of probiotics is way to high for me, as I take the latter of the two mentioned. And it costs me about thirty bucks a day in the doses I am taking.

    Does anyone have experience with this "custom probiotic" ?

    I saw it mentioned here:
    http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot....howComment=1311005799153#c4240991830767524597

    I am guessing I really should be on the lookout for a probiotic with the same ingredient as the latter mentioned, but it's not easy to find.
  6. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    The best probiotic I've found is made by my own doctor, Dale Guyer of Indianapolis. It's not cheap, but it's a lot less expensive than $30/day!

    If you want large quantities, I suggest consider using a brand you like to make yogurt:

    http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Growing_Mutaflor

    There's a thread on this board too. It's a lot easier than I thought it would be, at least in the summer when it's 100-110 degrees outside in the sunshine.
  7. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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  8. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    I have tried drinking Kefir, but that also wasn't no good for me. Either it made stuff a little worse, or there were no change. Hard to tell, because I have had some fluctuations in my symptoms lately.
  9. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    store bought kefir? cause thats not real kefir
  10. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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  11. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    Yes, store bought. I don't have the capacity to make it myself, but thanks for the tip anyway.
  12. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    Melbourne, Australia
  13. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    leaves, I initially thought you meant 'panda eyes' lol. Does anyone have specific info on cfs and PANDAS (Pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with streptococcal infections) and strep strain in yoghurt?
  14. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    ha :) I just now it from asd forums that a lot of autistic kids cant handle those..
  15. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    Wow. Interesting leaves. I've got many autism like symptoms in my CFS. Can you post a link?
  16. redo

    redo Senior Member

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  17. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    One of my illness symptoms is a constant lactic-acid like burning in my muscles which becomes momentarily worse upon any movement. Apparently this is not uncommon in ME/CFS. It is similar to but not as strong as the full blown muscle burning sensation from exhausting a muscle. There has been no association between this and fitness levels, in other words I had the same problem when I was more fit than I am now, if anything it was worse when fitter because it was associated with increased physical activity.

    Anyway when I tried VSL#3, at some stage into the trial it seemed to significantly worsen this symptom about an hour or so after taking it, but then the next day it would have a suspected improvement to cognitive impairment. The price is prohibitive though.
  18. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    This is an illuminating study. Damned statistics - could someone check this for me. According to the study those who were not taking probiotics (placebo) actually showed an increase - about half that of those taking the probiotics. Say what? However, according to one of the tables, the increase in bacteria for all groups was not all that much, if I read it right. So I guess this would explain the increase for the placebo group. I do not find the results all that encouraging because the increase is not all that great, but maybe someone could comment on this. I did note somewhere that live bacteria (in whey liquid) were much more productive than the tablets or the powder, which would be a spur to culture your own yoghurt from the caps or powder.

    Apart from the study seeming to be upbeat about the merits of taking probiotics, from the small increase in faecal counts, I would not come away from reading this study full of enthusiasm about using probiotics.

    There is some question over the viability of probiotics and there is no guarantee that towards the end of the 8 weeks that any were still alive, which would affect the faecal counts.

  19. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    This one's also a good one. From the same scientists:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12699726

    @Rusty, I haven't had the capacity to read through the whole thing. But what I am thinking is that as long as it helps those PWCs whom have anxiety, than that's good. I think the effects probiotics have on gut flora are both transient, and non-powerful, but they can offer somewhat of a help.

    I am too foggy to read and comprehend now, but please do elaborate on the stuff which didn't add up.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  20. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi redo, same study I think. But it will be easier for some people to look at the tables. Most significant one is Table 1 which shows actual increase in count of bacteria. Good news is that Bifido actually competes well with the Lacto.

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