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Vitamin D

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Jody, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. Cynthia

    Cynthia Guest

    It's over the counter here. I take two tablets...2000 IU per tablet a day. It promotes a healthy immune system, and, helps bone health too. I just found out today that I also need to be on something else for my bone health. Had a Dexa test. I will start taking Alendronate..70mg tab. once a month. So between the D-3 and that, maybe my bones will behave themselves. But I really like the D-3 for the immune system. :)
  2. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Cynthia,

    You might be interested in this earlier thread on Vitamin D.

    I posted it in the wrong section, and it was an early thread, way near the beginning of the sections threads. You would probably never find it, in a million years. :)

    http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?t=115
  3. Cynthia

    Cynthia Guest

    Wow, you take 6.000 IU a day? I've heard of some people taking that much.
    And, I also got my husband and son to start taking it.
  4. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Cynthia,

    I take 6,000 a day usually. Have upped it to 8,000 a day since my most recent crash. It seems to help with OI (orthostatic intolerance, that gotta go flat NOW feeling).

    I know a guy who takes 10,000 a day. Swears by it.

    Do a google search on Vitamin D. It's amazing stuff.
  5. SDD1244

    SDD1244 Guest


    Years before I had a diagnosis, I was taking vitamin D and it helped me in the short run, but not the long run.
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Sometimes...

    ...vitamin D won't work if one isn't getting enough of the trace mineral boron. Boron is said to 'activate' vitamin d.

    my two cents,

    d.
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Dannybex,

    I have Boron in my complete calcium supplement. I've been taking this for something like 25 years (although it's only in recent years that the manufacturer added the Boron).

    Great product (Australian made I think).

    And I've been taking 1000iu Vitamin D3 (extra) since an endocrinologist tested me & said my level (although within the normal range) was very low (in Nov 2006).

    Last Vitamin D test earlier this year showed it had increased to the upper end of normal.

    So looks like the supplement is doing it's job.

    I've never heard of taking really high doses (as in an earlier post). Must check it out on the internet.

    Victoria
  8. Cynthia

    Cynthia Guest

    Victoria, what Calcium treatment do you take. I was just told by my dr. that my D level is fine, but I need to start taking calcium as my bone density test came back low, not real low, but starting. Not sure what Boron is?
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Hi Cynthia,

    now you've got me.:eek:

    As I am posting from work, can't go & pick up the bottle & read the label (off the kitchen shelf).

    I think it was Calcium Complete made by Nutra Life. I have been taking 2 x 250grams first thing in morning (they say at night is better, but funnily enough, it keeps me awake) since allergy tests revealed dairy intolerance about 26 or 27 years ago. Rarely eat dairy, & for the periods I've been completely dairy free, my intolerance symtoms really do disappear.

    But you do need to take it on an empty stomach.

    At age 45, I increased it to 3 x 250gm (daily) in the morning. I also eat lots of green leafy veg, some almonds (which I have just started eating again a couple of days ago, after my broken tooth stopped me eating them for a month or so), and calcium enriched organic rice milk (used to be soy milk, but I've decided on a change of milk for my breakfast) as well as other calcium rich foods.

    If you look them up on the internet, I guess you should be able to get similar ingredients in the US. Ensure you get one with the correct proportion of calcium to magnesium, some vit D & I seem to remember it's got horsetail in it (as well as Boron).

    Most doctors in Australia & on tv recommend Caltrate (something?) - made in China.

    There was some news or current affairs item some time ago, that the Chinese were not putting a therapeutic quantity in the tablets. Don't know if this was true of not, but I love my brand of supplement & have complete confidence in it's dosage.

    I was very, very happy to get a bone density test of 94%.

    Don't know what it is now, as I cannot exercise/walk as much. Weight bearing exercise does ensure the body absorbs the calcium - I know that much.

    But I have had many, many falls overy recent years & have only fractured my acromion in my Left shoulder.

    Every women over 45 should be taking calcium supplements (& just as importantly so should men - they get osteoporosis too - it's just not advertised as much).

    One may already have a calcium rich diet, but once you reach middle age, you need more.

    A Story for you.......

    A sixty-five yr old friend was diagnosed with osteoporosis several years ago & her Dr advised weight bearing exercise. I asked her if she had now started on a calcium supplement (to ensure her osteo. didn't get worse). She said no, her Dr didn't tell her to.:eek:

    I couldn't believe it.

    With all the tv advertisements on Osteoporosis AND her Dr telling her she had bad Osteo., why on earth didn't she start taking a supplement. They say that taking supplements when you've been diagnosed with Osteo, won't reverse the damage - at best, it might improve it by 5%. And new research has brought out some drugs that improve bone density. But you can't reverse brittle bones completely back to the high density they were at age 20.

    A few pills a day, a calcium rich diet & a 30 minute brisk walk are a small price to pay for broken bones & disabling pain later in life.

    But that's my opinion.:)

    Cynthia, I've just seen your post from 11th - sorry I didn't reply earlier.

    Victoria
  10. klutzo

    klutzo Senior Member

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    Vitamin D dosage depends on body weight

    I take 8,000 units of vitamin D daily. I recently did an 8 week course of 50,000 units twice a week as well. I recently saw a recommendation by Dr. Cannell, a vit. D expert, saying that people whose vit. 25D is too low should do the same 8 week course that I did, as well as taking 50,000 once every two weeks thereafter. That keeps the levels where they belong.

    There are 2 reasons for my taking all of this: 1) I get no sun exposure as a result of being deathly allergic to insects and constantly being stung in impossible ways. (Sometimes your'e not paranoid and they really are after you!), and , 2) I am obese.

    When fat people take vitamin D, a good deal of it gets stuck in their fat and never comes out. I cant explain it scientifically, but you can look up Dr. Cannell to find out more. We fatties need much higher doses to do any good.

    I am also aiming for a cancer protective level of vit. D, since I have a precancer in my stomach and a strong family history of the disease. The protective level is much higher, at least 65 and the closer to 80 the better. Normally, most docs aim for a range from 32-50. Aboriginals have levels averaging between 80-100, which may be why they tend to be healthy all their lives until they get whatever kills them. Here in "civilization", we tend to be chronically ill throughout adulthood.

    The 50,000 units twice weekly X 8 weeks got me up to a vit. D level of 51, but my doctor did not give me the once every two weeks maintenance dose. I had to take OTC vit. D, and mine dropped to 43 within two months at 4,000 units daily. I needed it higher, not lower. That is why I am now taking 8,000 units.

    To complicate things, I have serious fat malabsorption and have to depend on prescription enzymes to help me digest fat. This may be a factor to some extent in all of us with Lyme, since I read recently that Lyme reduces digestion by 20,000%!

    The point is that getting a baseline 25-D lab test done and a follow-up after a couple months of taking vit. D should give you a good idea of what your body's special needs are in this area. There are all sorts of variables to consider. I was shocked that I needed so much to get results.

    If you have FMS, you probably have osteopenia at least, if not osteoporosis, so I think a DEXA test is a good idea, if over age 40. It is very common in Fibromyalgia, probably due to the ubiquitous hypothyroidism found in FMS.

    I have very big bones, have exercised all of my life, I take a good multi with plenty of the bone helpers like Mg, boron, and manganese, and I take extra Mg and Ca. Dairy has always been my main protein source, yet I got osteopenia after several years of FMS anyway. That was the one thing I figured I'd never have to worry about. If you have FMS and want to know more abut why we get bone loss, see Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum's web site. Are we allowed to give out other URL's on this forum? I am new, so I wont' post his URL until I find out. (It's the ProHealth reflex....extreme fear of being banned without warning, lol).

    klutzo

    P. S. To Victoria - I have a friend with severe osteoporosis (she is addicted to drinking Coke and does not eat right). She has broken her arm twice, and her foot 3 times, and she is only 49 yrs. old. Her doctor told her she did not need Calcium supplements because her blood calcium level was fine! I explained that he was wrong and why, and that in my opinion she needs a new doctor, but she chose to believe the "expert" over me. Now her spine is hunching over and she is in constant pain. The ignorance of some of these docs is only exceeded by the arrogance.
  11. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

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    calcium and dairy

    Hi; if you want a really good account of how ingesting lots of dairy may not be the answer to raising calcium and bone strength, read Colin Campbell, The China Study--a very good book based on 40 years of intense research into nutrition. Mind you, he is not addressing himself to CSFers. Best, Chris
  12. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Over on another thread Tammie and I were discussing psoriasis lamps--I'm thinking of finding a source of UVA/UVB this winter since btw Nov-March you can't make any Vitamin D from the sun in NY.

    Though some people like to take Vitamin D supplements, I don't except for Carlson's Cod Liver Oil, in which they take out the vitamins, clean the oil, and put the vitamins back in. I'm not sure how much that denatures the actual cod liver oil but I tolerate that fine. Most Vitamin D's out there are made from lanolin. Something about d3 supplements throws my body off badly. I simply cannot tolerate them. Besides, when I'm exposed to sunlight, my body makes exactly what it needs and then shuts the process off. If I take a supplement I may get too little or too much. I find it alarming that some people are taking large amounts.

    We evolved to be outdoors. We essentially live in caves. We work indoors, sleep indoors, commute "indoors" (cars subways busses). Even those who exercise outside in clement weather or garden aren't getting enough Vitamin D. I find this new article very interesting and important for us. Sorry I don't know the URL as it was emailed to a list I'm on.
    ----

    Phys Ed: Can Vitamin D Improve Your Athletic Performance?
    By Gretchen Reynolds
    Patrik Giardino/Getty Images
    When scientists at the Australian Institute of Sport recently decided to check the Vitamin D status of some of that countrys elite female gymnasts, their findings were fairly alarming. Of the 18 gymnasts tested, 15 had levels that were below current recommended guidelines for optimal bone health, the studys authors report. Six of these had Vitamin D levels that would qualify as medically deficient. Unlike other nutrients, Vitamin D can be obtained by exposure to ultraviolet radiation from sunlight, as well as through foods or supplements. Of course, female gymnasts are a unique and specialized bunch, not known for the quality or quantity of their diets, or for getting outside much.

    But in another study presented at a conference earlier this year, researchers found that many of a group of distance runners also had poor Vitamin D status. Forty percent of the runners, who trained outdoors in sunny Baton Rouge, Louisiana, had insufficient Vitamin D. It was something of a surprise, says D. Enette Larson-Meyer, an assistant professor in the Department of Family and Consumer Sciences at the University of Wyoming and one of the authors of the study.

    Vitamin D is an often overlooked element in athletic achievement, a sleeper nutrient, says John Anderson, a professor emeritus of nutrition at the University of North Carolina and one of the authors of a review article published online in May about Vitamin D and athletic performance. Vitamin D once was thought to be primarily involved in bone development. But a growing body of research suggests that its vital in multiple different bodily functions, including allowing body cells to utilize calcium (which is essential for cell metabolism), muscle fibers to develop and grow normally, and the immune system to function properly. Almost every cell in the body has receptors for Vitamin D, Anderson says. It can up-regulate and down-regulate hundreds, maybe even thousands of genes, Larson-Meyer says. Were only at the start of understanding how important it is.

    But many of us, it seems, no matter how active and scrupulous we are about health, dont get enough Vitamin D. Nowadays, many people arent going outside very much, Johnson says, and most of us
    assiduously apply sunscreen and take other precautions when we do. The Baton Rouge runners, for instance, most likely ran early in the morning or late in the day, Larson-Meyer says, reducing their chances of heat stroke or sunburn, but also reducing their exposure to sunlight.

    Meanwhile, dietary sources of Vitamin D are meager. Cod-liver oil provides a whopping dose. But a glass of fortified milk provides a fraction of what scientists now think we need per day. (A major study published online in the journal Pediatrics last month concluded that more than 60 percent of American children, or almost 51 million kids, have insufficient levels of Vitamin D and another 9 percent, or 7.6 million children, are clinically deficient, a serious condition. Cases of childhood rickets, a bone disease caused by lack of Vitamin D, have been rising in the U.S. in recent years.)

    Although few studies have looked closely at the issue of Vitamin D and athletic performance, those that have are suggestive. A series of strange but evocative studies undertaken decades ago in Russia and Germany, for instance, hint that the Eastern Bloc nations may have depended in part on sunlamps and Vitamin D to produce their preternaturally well-muscled and world-beating athletes. In one of the studies, four Russian sprinters were doused with artificial, ultraviolet light. Another group wasnt. Both trained identically for the 100-meter dash. The control group lowered their sprint times by 1.7 percent. The radiated runners, in comparison, improved by an impressive 7.4 percent.
  13. JanisB

    JanisB Senior Member

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    Vitamin D3: To Take or Not to Take?

    I'm sure there's a thread somewhere about this but I couldn't find it.

    My FM specialist (I have CFS but he's the only one at the University Hospital who treats CFS) tested and found my D levels low. He wants me to take it.

    I've read on other forums that it can be bad for people with bacterial infections. I've seen people tout the Marshall protocol and others claim that it harms people with CFS. Tonight, the Cheney Research newsletter has this provocative paragraph:
    I don't know what to do -- whether to take Vitamin D3 or not take it. Are there actual studies out there regarding D3 supplementation for PWCs?
  14. starcycle

    starcycle Guest

    Definitely to take, imo. All the more true if you test low -- not good.

    If the D3 enzymes are low, imo that indicates some damage to the enzyme, not some kind of autocorrective down regulation (which personally I doubt even happens, but who knows - that's the first I've heard of the idea in re: CYP450 D3 enzymes). And if they're downregulated, it's doubtful the person is getting enough D.

    My guess instead would be that higher intracellular calcium would be an attempted protective effect of the cell to get enough calcium as a result of decreased D metabolism, not the other way around. But that's just a quick idea off the top of my head.

    Just curious, is it your active or storage D that was tested low? Or both? Did your specialist test parathyroid levels?
  15. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    I can only tell you that I am healthier, with less OI, better breathing, less head fog and less physical swirling effects, better stamina and less heavy on my feet when I am taking D3 (I take 8,000 IUs a day).

    When I occasionally run out, if I go for a week or two without it these symptoms begin to slowly move back in. Within a few days back on D3, they recede.
  16. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest

    Interesting information - I'd not heard it before. But I graph my daily activity levels.

    All through summer I don't take any supplemental vitamin D - I aim to get it all from the sun, which gives me a boost. (There's a lot of other reasons sun picks you up: effects on melatonin/sleep cycles, apparently it assists part of the Krebs cycle?)

    In winter I take 1000ug D3. Apart from the inevitable cold/virus, I generally do at least just as well throughout winter as I do in summer. Which would suggest - even though it's a cautious dose - it's not doing me any obvious harm. It might even be helping as my winter activity trends are usually a little better than the summer ones.
  17. talkingfox

    talkingfox Senior Member

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    I've started using a D3 supplement (and extra 4000IU in addition to what's already in my other vits) and I've noticed a big difference in how I feel. I discontinued after 2 months for 2 weeks to see if it was a placebo effect.

    It wasn't ;)
  18. Frank

    Frank Senior Member

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  19. starcycle

    starcycle Guest

    I take 4,800IU a day, but after reading some of these reports I'm thinking I should increase it by another 2,400. Is there any risk of overdose? Apart from blood tests, how would you know you are getting too much? Is there any such thing as too much, or is that another medical myth?
  20. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest

    I think you're probably right. I've always been a little cautious with it. (Which is why I don't take any in the summer months and only take 1000ug tops in winter at the moment.)

    I'd rather get myself a suitable tanning bed or UVB light and not have to supplement it at all. (Haven't really researched that enough yet. I've heard mixed opinions on how useful tanning beds are. But from what I understand, getting it the natural way allows your body to control production, so I'm guessing it wouldn't be so dangerous if it were deliberately downregulated... Interesting thing to consider re: intercellular calcium.)

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