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Vitamin D detoxification pathway?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by PDXhausted, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    Does anyone know how vitamin D leaves your body?

    I found this Vitamin D synthesis pathway:
    http://www.wikipathways.org/index.php/Pathway:WP1531

    Which seems to show it going through CYP24A1 to convert to 24,25-OH Vitamin D. But what happens to that? Is that excreted through the urine? Are there other pathways similar to estrogen where it goes through various Phase I and Phase II detox?

    There are several studies that show a link between Vitamin D and GSH levels, so I'm wondering if it uses glutathione to detox.

    Reason I am asking is because estrogen induces my symptoms and basically makes me crash-- so I'm hypothesizing that my symptoms are possibly related to low glutathione/redox-cycling as described in some previous estrogen-related threads. But vitamin D also induces my symptoms and makes me crash. I'm trying to figure out if there is a link there somewhere and whether it could be related to detoxification or not. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

    I realize that most people actually do better on Vitamin D, so there is probably something unique to me that is screwed up. My parathyroid levels were normal when checked and I have already considered lupus and sarcoidosis.
     
  2. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    That's a really good question. If you are still coming to the forum, please let us know if you found any answers.

    Thanks
     
  3. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    Thanks @Violeta :) I'm still here and still have no answers. I still strongly suspect my inability to tolerate vitamin D and other hormones has to do with detoxification and probably glutathione, but no proof of this yet. I'm seeing a ND this week though that is experienced with methylation, so I'm hoping she'll have some ideas.
     
  4. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @PDXhausted
    can't answer the question but I started using a transdermal form of vit D a couple of weeks ago - I seem to be able to tolerate it, whereas the oral form always makes me feel really ill. I have no idea why...................
     
  5. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    Thanks for the tip @maryb ! I have not tried transdermal yet.

    Do you also have problems with the sun or just the oral supplement?
     
  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    I'm actually okay with a little sun, have to wear a hat and keep my eyes covered and not get too hot, but usually feel better in the summer or most times I am out of doors really
     
  7. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    @maryb: what product are you using or would you suggest as transdermal vit. D?
    Thanks
     
  8. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I've been reading an article about vitd, and I don't know if this pertains to what you are asking about getting vitd out of the body or not.

    However, certain feedback mechanisms are also in place, which allow the body to limit the production of 1,25-D to just that amount needed for proper transcriptional activation of the VDR.
    • When the VDR is activated, it transcribes the gene for the enzyme CYP24A1, which increases conversion of 1,25-D into inactive metabolites.
    • An activated VDR also controls 1,25-D concentration by limiting transcription of the gene CYP27B1, which converts 25-D into 1,25-D
    Well,it's more about vitd metabolism, which might be what you (and I) need to know.
     
  9. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    That is interesting @Violeta do you have the link to that article?

    What issues do you see with Vitamin D?
     
  10. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Yes, here it is.
    http://mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/vitamind/metabolism
    This is controversial information. But there are lots of people getting relief from sarcoidosis and other autoimmune diseases by avoiding Vitamin d and taking antibiotics. I can't remember exactly how I ended up there, but having chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, mismanagement of calcium, and wondering if I have autoimmune issues made it interesting to me. I actually avoided all vitamin d for several months, but never took any antibiotics. I had bad reactions to antibiotics and any other medicine I had ever tried, so just would not get into it. They told me that I would never get over my chronic fatigue if I didn't do their protocol. I don't believe that. But their information is very interesting.
     
  11. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I would just like to add a paragraph from an article by Chris Masterjohn about Vitamin K2, since Vitamin K2.

    The role of vitamin A in the immune system is well established. We do not currently know, however, whether vitamin K2 plays an important role in the immune system. Nevertheless, lymph glands and bone marrow accumulate large amounts of it62 and a vitamin K-dependent protein called gas6 plays a role in phagocytosis,33 a process wherein immune cells destroy and consume foreign cells or the body's own cells when they are infected or no longer needed. It is therefore possible that K vitamins could play an important role in protecting against infectious diseases such as pneumonia.

    I have a few things that I'd like to say about it with respect to the information from the link to Marshall Protocol and Vitamin D, but I can't seem to put it into words right now, I guess I'm too tired.
     
  12. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I am going to toss another factor into the ring. For a small percentage of people, perhaps > 1% and <5%, methylation startup occurs with Vit D. When that happen one can feel very ill with the following sets of symptoms.

    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with cyanocobalamin it is very common with methylb12 and adensosylb12 and less so with hydroxycobalamin..
    IBS – Steady constipation , Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum, Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness, Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), Increased pulse rate, Increased blood pressure, Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.
    Group 2a - Both
    IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation
    Group 2b – Either or both
    Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue
    Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency
    IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract, increased hypersensitive responses , Skin rashes, Increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores, Coated tongue, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, Increase irritability, Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Old symptoms returning, Heart palpitations, Bleeding easily.
     
    S.A. likes this.
  13. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Freddd, where is that information from?
     
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Violeta,

    That list of several groups of symptoms is a composite. First they are a collection of symptoms from an assortment of websites from different countries, like WebMD, Wikipedia, NHS, on folate deficiency and list developed over the past 10 years. Then it includes those that come up for paradoxical folate deficiency/insufficiency and recover with l-methylfolate or stopping folic acid or whatever. The NAC side effects list comes from Cerefolin -NAC. They were already on the list. There are only so many ways stomach discomforts are going to be described for instance.

    The hypokalemia symptoms are again academic or health related lists as verified by lots of people at this and another forum. So if you go back and read historically all the discussions about hypokalemia and PFD coming on and being relieved you will see certain symptoms over and over. Some come on sooner, and some come on later. Each person has their most likely 3 or 4 symptoms out of the whole list so it is rare to find 2 people with exactly the same subset. Each person has their selection of several symptoms which is different from mine or yours. Some people have skin problems first, some digestive, some lung and some neurological/mood. So far there is no predicting how any specific person gets their several symptoms. It likely ties in to what else is wrong.

    All in all about half the symptoms were by participants and half were from written sources that were dealing with the long term deficiency symptoms, not necessarily the fastest onset ones. The NAC and glutathione detox listings supplied the fast acting folate deficiency symptoms as supplied by my own experience and many others who have voiced their responses, often in very great and excellent detail when asked.
     
  15. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Hi Freddd, actually I was wondering where you found this:

    For a small percentage of people, perhaps > 1% and <5%, methylation startup occurs with Vit D. When that happen one can feel very ill with the following sets of symptoms

    Thanks
     
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Violeta,

    It's not a high percentage thing. People here see the "problem" from the opposite end as where I started put. In the beginning .... (I used to sing that) the problem was getting methylation started and healing "turned on". At that point we did all the basics.

    But then folks would start MeCbl and AdoCbl. Then if they didn't get startup, the would add methylfolate but only after it became available. So there were the "critical cofactors" L-methylfolate, l-carnitine fumarate, SAM-e. D-ribose, TMG, zinc and vit D. These were the ones that would generally result in startup. Sometimes it took all the way out to vitamin D. As you see, the l-methylfolate and LCF eventually were moved "logically" into the deadlock quartet where there others were left in the '"critical cofactors" group. However, as I was suggesting 3000-5000iu a day of D3 even at that time, the D deficiencies rarely showed up except when people didn't take the D up from. All the vitamins are by definition "deadlock" items. The 1-5% inclusion of startup with vit D was mostly found prior to being able to cause startup reliably. And urging people to take the Vit D up front prevents any gathering of the actual deficiency deadlock frequency. It does happen from time to time where the person needs to increase their D. I had an experience with zinc like that. I was taking 15mg of zinc a day as mart of a mineral mix. I had no zinc deficiency symptoms or signs that I know of. When I tried 50mg of zinc I had very strong startup. I had to titrate my dose up to that level over a few weeks. Later I found out that the zinc is a major player with AdoCbl for anti-inflammatory action. Good luck and hope that helps.
     
  17. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Thanks, Freddd, I see how you figured out that Vitamin D was starting startup.
     
  18. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    I've given up on the vitamin d TD spray, felt really rough and could only put it down to that and the mineral mix I was applying to my skin, felt a bit better yesterday and today, stopped Fri so?????
     

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