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Vitamin D and sleep - Worth a shot

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
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1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
http://www.gwern.net/docs/zeo/2012-gominak.pdf

Abstract
An observation of sleep improvement with vitamin D supplementation led to a 2 year uncontrolled trial of vitamin D supplementation in 1500 patients with neurologic complaints who also had evidence of abnormal sleep. Most patients had improvement in neurologic symptoms and sleep but only through maintaining a narrow range of 25(OH) vitamin D3 blood levels of 60-80 ng/ml. Comparisons of brain regions associated with sleep-wake regulation and vitamin D target neurons in the diencephalon and several brainstem nuclei suggest direct central effects of vitamin D on sleep. We propose the hypothesis that sleep disorders have become epidemic because of widespread vitamin D deficiency. The therapeutic effects together with the anatomic-functional correspondence warrant further investigation and consideration of vitamin D in the etiology and therapy of sleep disorders.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22246808

If you like me and 100% of others I have seen testing vit D have it low you might want to try vit D. I definetely will try a sublingual form. Of course, I know my severe sleep problems are more tied with very low adrenal hormones and hypothyroidism than other thing, but being severely defficient in 25-hydroxyvitamin D this is something I want to try.

I have had great success with sublingual melatonin, NAC, glutathione reduced and pharmaGABA for sleep onset insomnia but they haven´t even touched the multiple awakenings.

By the way, I do no buy the crap pushed by Dr. Marshall
 
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minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
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4,678
Location
Left Coast
I've been taking 10,000 IU's a day for years. It hasn't done that much. OTC stuff, like what you have mentioned along with everything else you can think of does not touch my insomnia. I need drugs.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
Well I think you haven´t found yet the real cause of your severe sleep problems then. Personally since I am young and my symptoms are not that severe I find it normal that the "OTC" stuff helps. Drugs make me feel like shit.

Eventually as my HPA axis, GI tract, thyroid etc are healed I will drop most supplements and meds, except those that are needed for things that cannot be fixed.
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
Well I think you haven´t found yet the real cause of your severe sleep problems then. Personally since I am young and my symptoms are not that severe I find it normal that the "OTC" stuff helps. Drugs make me feel like shit.

That's an understatement. I've had sleep problems for my entire life I think. I can't do a sleep study because you need 5 hours of sleep and without meds I get no sleep.

There are way too many of us with what is called Weapons Grade Insomnia to say, Oh just figure it out. Sometimes you just can't.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
I will do the sleep study I have scheduled with meds and/or supplements, that´s for sure. I cannot sleep normally otherwise, especially with a lot of electrodes stuck in my head.

I also have had sleep problems all of my life but they used to be very bearable. You will agree with me that our sleep problems have a cause right? If you find the cause (most likely in plural, causes) you have a chance to eventually fix it.

BTW I think that from these things is most likely that sublingual melatonin is the one that delivers. Sublingual almost equals injections and I have been found defficient in urine tests of melatonin sulfate. Normal melatonin or even timed release never worked.
 
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minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
I would think taking anything during a sleep study defeats the purpose of finding out the problem

At this point just give me drugs. I don't care.

If you search here for sleep meds you will see a ton of people taking 10 plus things to sleep. I imagine many of them have tried to figure it out.

Maybe I'm just too old and jaded.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
Sadly minkeygirl sleep studies rarely find the cause of the problem. Allopathy sucks donkey balls for finding causes. In the best case they find your legs jerk or you have some kind of apnea. Nonetheless these medical dolts will say that they ignore what is cause of these so back to square one. And don´t think their treatments to deal with the symptoms of the cause are that effective either. Oh God help us.

I am interested in a sleep study to get a medical examination and proof that I have real problems which my family have a hard time believing, plus it gives some slightly interesting parameters such as REM sleep and total sleep time.
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
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4,678
Location
Left Coast
I totally agree with you. Probably why I don't care.

I don't have to worry about family but it boggles me that they don't believe people who say they are sick.

Who would make this misery up?
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
lol Just today I used that argument with my father, Who the fuck would make up all this shit up just to stay all day at home and never fulfill your dreams? Not be able to exercise or be independient? Go to the mountains or visit the rainforest? Date countless women, get rich, whatever?

Sure, sounds great. So there are people who believe you can psychosomatize all this to avoid going to work or just live? Really? They need to try being sick and they´ll see what is psychosomatic.
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
I know isn't it stupid? And wouldn't they have noticed some mental issues before now?

Lots of people I'm sure dupe the system so they don't have to work but they are still out doing stuff.

I'll talk to your parents! LOL. I've lost 19 years to this crap. I didn't like work but there is a complete loss of self esteem and a sense of purpose without having a job or life. I never would have chosen this as a way to not have to work.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
BTW did your vitamin D levels rise after supplementation? Mine were wicked low, 16 pg/ml, 30 is the minimum. 60-80 is optimal.
 
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2,565
Location
US
I am jaded about docs helping us too. In my opinion, a sleep study is only useful if you can tolerate wearing a CPAP. Maybe to diagnose RLS but I think you would know if you have RLS if someone observes you (or video yourself).

I have bad insomnia and wearing some mask does not help. So many can't tolerate the mask, but some non-M.E. people with fatigue and apnea are greatly improved with the mask.
 
Messages
2,565
Location
US
lol Just today I used that argument with my father, Who the fuck would make up all this shit up just to stay all day at home and never fulfill your dreams? Not be able to exercise or be independient? Go to the mountains or visit the rainforest? Date countless women, get rich, whatever?

Sure, sounds great. So there are people who believe you can psychosomatize all this to avoid going to work or just live? Really? They need to try being sick and they´ll see what is psychosomatic.

OMG I could not agree more. People think that about us! It's a losing battle trying to convince them :mad: :thumbdown: :confused: :mad:

Some people exist who have no ambition :( (I believe many of them have depression, undiagnosed problems like sleep apnea, poor role models, addictions, or being overmedicated).

I am mad that our own families and friends can't tell the difference and conclude we are that. M.E. patients are more likely to be overachievers who push(ed) themselves :(
 
Messages
2,565
Location
US
If I remember, there was a thread about Vitamin D3 interfering with someone's sleep? So maybe another way we can be different. If anyone tries it for the first time, take it in the morning. It gives me more insomnia if I take it late.

I am interested in a sleep study to get a medical examination and proof that I have real problems which my family have a hard time believing, plus it gives some slightly interesting parameters such as REM sleep and total sleep time.

I understand this. I hope your family will accept the evidence. Is the sleep study free for you? I had a few expensive tests because I wanted to be believed, but it worked very little. I didn't expect it to work with family.

If it's not free, I suggest you get other testing done instead. I would get NK Cell counts, blood volume, and some others which are like biomarkers. Genetic testing to show faults in the methylation genes.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
It is free. I actually have some family support but is a hard battle. Sometimes I feel like I have to remember them everyday that I am genuinely physically sick.

Actually in the pdf I posted they found that rising vitamin D levels more than 80 pg/ml caused sleep problems. So they concluded that both excess and defficiency of vitamin D is a factor in some cases of sleep disorders.
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
I am interested in a sleep study to get a medical examination and proof that I have real problems which my family have a hard time believing, plus it gives some slightly interesting parameters such as REM sleep and total sleep time.
If possible, get a sleep doctor who is a neurologists and understands sleep architecture. You will be more likely to learn something usefull.