Vitamin C - does bowel tolerance level indicate optimum dose?

[Sasha]

Justy raised the interesting question on a thread about the best type of Vitamin C. She asked whether it's wise to let your choice of dose be guided by your bowel tolerance limit.

I had assumed for years that it was, because that was what I was reading - that the idea was to titrate up until you couldn't tolerate it and then cut back by 10% and hold at that dose. I thought it was the body taking all it needed and rejecting the rest.

Using that principle, during my first bout of ME (several years bedbound) I titrated up to 45g/day. Now, after a period of remission I'm mostly housebound/bedbound and titrating up from zero because Vitamin C supplementation is part of Freddd's b12 protocol, which I'm following.

Justy warns about kidney stones from high doses of Vit C, for example, so it's not harmless.

Any views on the question of whether the bowel tolerance limit is the limit to go for? And if not, what is a reasonable dose? Or a sensible strategy for arriving at one?

 

[taniaaust1]

hi.. Nutrition (vitamins etc) is a subject I studied for two years in collage. yes one can get stones happen from taking too much vitamin C. That isnt the only danger from it.. it can also lead to ones body adapting if one has been on large amounts of Vit C long term so that when one stops the large doses (esp if stopped very suddenly) one can actually then develop Rebound Scurvy as ones body adapted and is now absorbing it less efficiently then before you started taking it. (you've downgraded the bodies ability to absorb).
Ive been told that scurvy may also present in ones baby if one is taking large doses while pregnant and then gives birth

The acidity in Vit C may also damage the teeth.
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wow 45g is a lot for a persons body to handle... far more then Ive actually heard of anyone having, that sounds far to much to me.. People are often just told to work up to bowel tollerance as usually diahearr would happen LONG before one gets to that amount (some can only tollerate 2-3g daily).
Maybe there is something wrong with your bowel which is allowing for you to be able to take an incrediable amount??

The absorption of vit C is also dependant on bioflavenoids (for best absorption several bioflavonoids should be being taken too).

When i take vitamin C.. I like to make sure it is a good one (with the bioflavonoids included), if possible I get the powdered forms (better absorption) and I usually take it a couple of times a day. (for myself I find 2-3g a dose twice daily is sufficient and I work slowly down from that if Ive been on it for a while when Im coming off due to the college scury warnings).

It is taken a couple of times a day as its water soluable so dont stick around in your system for long so at least a couple of times a day for more steady levels.
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Vit C is quite safe if taken in reasonable amounts and if one dont just suddenly stop taking it if on it long term.

 

[Sasha]

Thanks for that, tania - yes, I was surprised that I got up to 45g in my first illness but I thought that it must mean that my body really, really needed it!

This was 20 years ago when Linus Pauling's work on Vit C megadoses was very prominent. Having just looked on Wikipedia, I see that even he only took 3g/day and that the treatment dose in his clinical trials for cancer was 10g/day (though the latter might have been IV).

I think I have perhaps been Vit C deficient for several years - I often get burst blood vessels in my eyes if I sneeze hard and that is apparently a sign.

Perhaps I should just stick to 2g/day? I just don't know how to gauge what's a good dose.

 

[taniaaust1]

Thanks for that, tania - yes, I was surprised that I got up to 45g in my first illness but I thought that it must mean that my body really, really needed it!

This was 20 years ago when Linus Pauling's work on Vit C megadoses was very prominent. Having just looked on Wikipedia, I see that even he only took 3g/day and that the treatment dose in his clinical trials for cancer was 10g/day (though the latter might have been IV).

I think I have perhaps been Vit C deficient for several years - I often get burst blood vessels in my eyes if I sneeze hard and that is apparently a sign.

Perhaps I should just stick to 2g/day? I just don't know how to gauge what's a good dose.

nods.. 2-3g dose are counted as mega doses. I nearly keeled over in shock when I read how much you were/are taking.

burst blood vessels could be being caused by other things then vit C deficiency, your issues may not even be vitamin C deficiency.
If you get symptom relief from it.. you can base your dose on what gives you relief. I get less allergies when i take 4-6mg per day (i regularly give my body a break from it too so it wont get used to having it).

 

[taniaaust1]

I just got out my nutrition notes to see wha the Naturopathic recommendation is... the normal RDA is 60mg but naturopaths consider that useless and recommend 1g per day. my notes read "The higher the dose you take once past 500mg the less percent of it you absorb". 80% of 250mg is absorbed and things go down from there.

To work out dose.. start at 1g at day eg 500g twice daily (normal naturopathic recommendation) then add in more depending on if needed.
The relevent things in which you further increase it are..
infections
smoking
working where there is lots of chemicals
high protein diet
high copper or iron diet
stress
diabetes
high cholestrol
alcoholism (doubt if there are many here with that )
surgery (after anaethestics supplementation is recommended for a few mths with doses up to 5g).
asprin users
antibiotic users
sulphur drugs (increase excertion by 3 times)
warts
hypoglycemia
contraceptive pills
cortisone treatment
celiac disease or other bowel issues
lowered immune system
high fevers

(copper cooking utensils destroys vitamin C in your foods).

From previous chats Ive had with people.. many of those who have ME are using 4-6g per day (not just me).

 

[Sasha]

I was taking 45g/day under medical supervision from a private ME specialist at the time, if memory serves - she also tried me on high-dose IV Vit C (no effect).

That's useful to know the normalish range for PWME - even a ballpark figure is helpful (it will stop me going up to 45g, for sure!).