A New Decade of ME Research: The 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry presents the first in a series of articles on the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Vitamin C - any dangers?

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by SwanRonson, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

    Messages:
    289
    Likes:
    201
    Alabama
    One of the staples in my supplement regimen for the last 6 months has been 1500mg of Vitamin C (solgar ester-c). Some days I do 2000mg. Everything I've read says that Vitamin C is super safe in these amounts. Is there anything I should be aware of long-term?
     
    Theodore and PeterPositive like this.
  2. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes:
    12,034
    U.K
    Dr Myhill suggest daily doses to bowel tolerance, which I have never reached, even taking 1g every three hours whilst awake!

    BUT I know that Richvank, who did a lot of good work on methylation, talked about the dangers of high dose Vitamin C, but i'm not sure I can remember what he said or where he said it - you could try searching for methylation and Vit c on the search function of the forums.
    I am also trying to find info on Vit c and Histamine - I have read its good and mops up histamine (im having mast cell issues at the moment) but other sources have suggested that after 750mg it may become problematic and cause extra mast cell degranulation - this issue also has not been resolved and im not sure what to do.

    I always feel a little better with 2-3 g a day of Vit C, but am having a complete break for a week or so right now.
     
    merylg and SwanRonson like this.
  3. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,566
    Likes:
    3,558
    What I can remeber from the top of my head is that vit C
    • increases iron absorption (men and menopausal women, beware)
    • chelates some metals out (copper for instance)
    • has some endocrine implications that now I forget (sorry)
     
    jepps likes this.
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,491
    Likes:
    35,107
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Vitamin C is fairly safe at most reasonable doses in most people. So far as I am aware the group that has to be careful is anyone with haemochromatosis. High iron and high vitamin C can combine effects to become high oxidant rather than antioxidant. I have not investigated this enough to be sure of the chemistry, but it would be an unnecessary risk.

    However we are all different. One person's safe dose of something could be the next person's toxic dose. Some moderation is a good idea. For vitamin C though the safe limits are likely to be very high most of the time. I would not be too worried unless your iron levels (or ferritin if you don't know your iron, but a full iron workup is more reliable) are way above normal. There may be drugs it interacts with, I am not sure about that, but mostly its tolerated.

    One possibility nobody has written about that I know of is that the amount of vitamin C stored might be too high over time if you stay on a higher dose. I did say stored. Contrary to popular medical textbooks vitamin C is stored. Where some vitamins have a preferred store, such as the liver, vitamin C is stored in every metabolically active tissue. Its needed everywhere. The cells hold onto it as long as they can, they don't like to release it if dietary intake is low. However I do not know if this is true if dietary intake is high. If it is then a high dose for long enough could turn a good dose into a bad one. I wish someone had investigated this.

    For anyone with high iron, the antioxidant from milk thistle is said to be a problem as well, but I have investigated this even less.
     
    Paralee, leela, PeterPositive and 2 others like this.
  5. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

    Messages:
    497
    Likes:
    666
    Austria
    Paul Jaminet writes about the safety of Vitamin C:
    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/nutrients/vitamin-c/
    I take 2-3 g Vit. C. daily (liposomal and not liposomal) long term.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
    Gondwanaland and PeterPositive like this.
  6. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,338
    Likes:
    21,486
    Albuquerque
    From Rich in 2008:
     
  7. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    I am not sure if I get the quoted text right.
    He seems to be saying the low dosages and very high ones are good but not the mid-range?
     
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,338
    Likes:
    21,486
    Albuquerque
    I think this means simply that you get some of the benefits of Vit C with a lower dose, without depleting glutathione. Midrange doses do seem to deplete glutathione, wheras high doses (closer to bowel tolerance) help to recycle glutathione = more glutathione available.
     
  9. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    That's an interesting concept.
    If this is correct I have probably been depleting my glutathione pretty actively in the last 6-8 months or so! :D

    My current dosage is 3-4 grams / day. Definitely the mid range your quotation is talking about.

    Hmmm... :wide-eyed:
     
  10. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    What would you consider the top limit for a low dose? 1 - 1.5 grams? Less?
     
  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,566
    Likes:
    3,558
    I think it varies from person to person. I guess this would be high dose for me
     
  12. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,338
    Likes:
    21,486
    Albuquerque
    This is from memory--I think Rich considered up to about 2 grams to be a lower range, mid to be about 2 - 6 grams, and bowel tolerance, individual, but usually much higher. If anyone else remembers differently, please correct me.

    Sushi
     
    justy, PeterPositive and SwanRonson like this.
  13. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

    Messages:
    289
    Likes:
    201
    Alabama
    I don't even know what a bowel tolerance dose would be for me. Having chronic constipation for 20 years, I might have to take the whole bottle to get loose bowels.
     
    AaroninOregon, justy and jepps like this.
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,566
    Likes:
    3,558
    Me too :jaw-drop:
     
    jepps likes this.
  15. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    I have found this information: The total body pool of vitamin C has been estimated using radiolabeled isotopes, to a maximum of 20 mg/kg body weight.

    Source: http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Antioxidants/VitaminC.html

    In my case it would be approximately 1500mg.
     
  16. susieq777

    susieq777

    Messages:
    13
    Likes:
    8
    Melbourne, Australia
    You probably don't really want to know, having never met me before, that bowel tolerance for me was 19 grams. I took 18 grams the first day, and nothing happened. That felt like a lot until I read elsewhere online that some people can tolerate up to 30 grams :O
     
    pibee likes this.
  17. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes:
    4,662
    i thought you can take as much as you want as long as its liposomal or IV, and it wont affect the bowels at all?
     
  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,566
    Likes:
    3,558
    Vit C is an aromatase inhibitor and reduces estrogen, can also cause wheezing
     
    GoodVibesOnly and ebethc like this.
  19. pemone

    pemone Senior Member

    Messages:
    423
    Likes:
    191
    I was on high dose vitamin C as well, but I cannot say it made me feel better. And in fact one of the great shocks for me was when an allopath had me go off all 40 of my supplements, I felt dramatically better.

    The biggest problem is there is no *convincing* evidence that supplemental vitamin C either extends life or improves health. You will find studies on both sides of the issue, and it becomes pretty obvious at some point reading these studies that they split hairs either way. You will find very smart people like James Watson (nobel prize for discovering DNA's structure) who refuses to take any Vitamin C at all because he thinks that cancer benefits from Vitamin C more than healthy cells do.

    I would feel very good about taking Vitamin C if an osteopath could measure some harmful level of oxidative stress and then prove to me that this goes away when I take Vitamin C. Apparently no osteopath is that invested to spend the time to do that.

    Where Vitamin C gets much more interesting is in treatment during some active disease, like a viral infection. The ability to protect the body from massive amounts of oxidative stress might really improve the outcome. I haven't experimented with that, but there is a world of difference between using Vitamin C as a medicine during illness and using Vitamin C as a prophylactic for every day use to protect against oxidative stress.

    Here's the bigger problem that I see: the body needs a certain level of free radicals in order to build its endogenous defense systems. When you use too many antioxidants, you mask this system. You are protected from the initial injury of reactive oxygen species, but you never then develop stronger defenses. If you are engaged in appropriate low-intensity exercise, you need hormesis and these interactions to get stronger. Vitamin C could result in people feeling better but then failing to get stronger as a result of exercise.

    I'm getting cynical enough about supplements that I only want to take things that have remarkable proven benefits, or for which there is some real experimental evidence that my metabolism would benefit (and then some follow up that proves I did benefit). Taking Vitamin C just as an insurance policy, when the evidence is so weak, doesn't look like a smart bet to me.

    Just a P.S. if you do take it: it has an extremely short half life. So if you want to take 2 grams, you are wasting the dose to take it all at once. You would want to spread it out over every three hours. But then of course you increase the risk that your are interfering with the body's ability to respond to free radicals by getting stronger in response to exercise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
    SwanRonson likes this.
  20. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,244
    Likes:
    725
    Dr. Lam loves vitamin C. I'm not sold on it just yet, however if excess free radicals are causing fatigue, Vitamin C might help. But I know some people said Lam had them up to 50 grams a day for "adrenal fatigue."

    Your adrenals are tired. So while every other organ in the body just does what it's told based on signaling, the adrenal's are the only organ that gets tired. Damn those lazy adrenal glands! Get on the treadmill lazy glands!

    :rolleyes:


    http://midlifewithoutcrisis.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/415-lazy-and-unmotivated.jpg
     
    ebethc and SwanRonson like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page