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Vitamin B6, Folic Acid immediate effects?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Rita1979, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:52 AM.

  1. Rita1979

    Rita1979

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    Hello,

    some days ago my Pyridoxal 5-Phosphate and Folic acid pills arrived and I started taking the, today. About a bit more than half an hour ago, I took one quarter of a 50mg p5ph (~12mg) and one pill with 800µg of folic acid (not folate!).

    The whole morning I felt bit agitated since I had redceived some difficult news and was on the phone trying to find a solution.

    Now suddenly, I turned very tired, somehow relaxed but also a bit anxious and have some mild pressude in my head and there was a moment when I thought my body was preparing for the next panic attack, anxiety, tension and agitated. I had panic attacks for one year, but didn't have any for at least 6 months and whatever caused them, the last months I could clearly feel that the time of the panic attacks was over. Today it didn't seem so...

    I am not tired enough to sleep, but also not fit enough to concentrate and to some work. It somehow feels like random nothingness, my thoughts are slow and a bit messy. Everything feels slow. The relaxation it is actually very nice, I could feal how it was spreading thoughout my body, neverthesess, the mental slowness and sleepiness, make it a bit difficult to enjoy, since I should actually work :) also the anxiety and head pressure raise questions about what happens.

    Since it happens so instantaneously I was wondering if it was the effect of either folic acid or P5Ph. But the p5phdose is really low... since I know that I can react sensible to certain supplements I split the pill into four pieces and took the smallest one for the beginning.

    Can this be a reaction to...? what...?

    Together with the p5ph and folic acid I also took (but for longer already so I don't assume that the effect is from that) 25mg Zinc, 1 g Vitamin C, 600mg Omega 3 fatty acids, 500mg B5, 5 mg B12.

    I left out my B-Complex since it also contains 125mg of B6 and I first wanted to understand the effect p5ph has on me.

    What experiences do you have, have you read and heard?

    Thank you for your input :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 3:55 PM
  2. Basilico

    Basilico Senior Member

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    My husband is an overmethylator but he can tolerate methylfolate and methylB12, which is not what would be expected. However, he can not seem to tolerate P5P. Both times he tried it, he got a reaction similar to what you describe; adrenaline and a sort of agitation. Very unpleasant. In general, he is prone to adrenaline bursts that don't go away as soon as they should. After getting his genetic testing done, we realized that the reason for this is that his MAO system is inefficient at breaking down adrenaline. Something about P5P activates this system for him. Maybe you are having a similar issue.

    Later in your post you mentioned that you also took 500mg of B6 (which is P5P), which seems like a really high dosage on top of the 50mg P5P you already took. Is this a typo?

    My recommendation would be to try the P5P and folic acid in isolation to figure out which of the two is causing this reaction. Which brings me to my big question, which is: why are you taking folic acid?
     
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  3. Rita1979

    Rita1979

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    I think you misunderstood. The oposite actually happened. I suddenly was very tired. The feeling of agitation happened right before and is entirely unrelated to the p5p becuse it was there already almost the entire morning. Also, it was 12.5 mg of p5p, one quarter of 50mg.

    Now I was sleeping for three hours because I was so tired.

    The B5 I started to take becuase of the skin problems I had after I started with the high B12. I am taking it already for some months and the package is almost empty and probably I won't start with a new onw after that.

    Folic acid ist that high because I am anemic and developed problems after I took B12. I also had severe iron deficiency, so it is kind of unclear how this influenced the blood values, because iron and B12 or folic acid deficiency cause the parameters to move into opposite directions such that they can mask each other. I am taking folate 1000mg already for several month and had no adverse reactions to it.
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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  5. Rita1979

    Rita1979

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    @Mary Thank you! What you describe in that post sounds very familiar. I will try to keep this updated as well, such that it might be another experience report. All those interactions among Vitamins are really complicated. Three years ago it was the Vitamin D Magnesium relation that was causing some problem.

    And since I was today switching from folic acid to Methylfolate*, it might also explain the immediate reaction. I think I have some pills with Magnesium (375mg) and Potassium (300mg), but they also contain 4.2 mg B6 (hcl) and 7.5µg B12 together with Vitamin C and Mangan. Will it make a difference? The amounts are very small compared to what I already took so I guess it will not make that much of a difference? That is the only supplement with potassium I currently have at home and shops here are closed already.

    *there was a typo confusing the two...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 4:41 PM
  6. Rita1979

    Rita1979

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    Sorry, yes, it is a typo... I meant B5 and I corrected it in the original post. I am really not too focussed today... thinking is heavy.
     
  7. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Rita1979 - it might not be a good idea to take that additional supplement you have which has 300 mg potassium as well as several other nutrients, when you're trying to sort this out and figuring out what is causing what. It's generally best to do one new thing at a time. Otherwise you won't know what you're reacting to.

    If you have any high potassium foods at home - tomato or vegetable juice, bananas have some potassium though not a lot, or sweet potatoes, coconut water - I would take some of these if you have any of them on hand. Otherwise I'd wait until you can get to the store.

    low-sodium V8 and tomato juice are high in potassium and low in sugar, so I like them for a potassium source. I also take potassium gluconate - 800 - 1000 mg a day in divided doses. I'm not telling you to take this amount. If you read the link I provided, it gives more info, so do read it before starting a supplement.

    BTW, why are you taking folic acid instead of folate? is the folic acid in addition to the folate you were taking? and even if so, why folic acid instead of more folate?

    Good luck, I hope this helps!
     
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  8. Rita1979

    Rita1979

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    At the moment I just wanted to see if it will make me feel better. All the other supplements I was taking for quite some time, the symptoms of lethargy and the heart palpitations I have already for quite some time. It is almost buddha-like, since I almost don't care about anything anymore. Which is kind of okay, since otherwise I would probably be extremely stressed because of the existential pressure I have at the moment. On the other hand I am lacking almost every motivation to do anything and thinking is extremely hard. Moments of clarity are rare.

    I have tomatoe juice :) Now I know why I didn't drink it the last weeks...

    The B Vitamins I took today, are 500mg B5, 5g Biotin

    5000µg MethylB12 plus 1000µg Methylfolate (actually 1000, not 800) and the 12.5mg of p5p

    together with
    100µg Selenium yeast, 25mg Zinc, 1 g Vitamin C, 100µg Iodine, 600mg Omega 3.

    I guess that was it. It is a bit difficult since I actually have many more and I am not taking all of them every day.

    Sorry, I think I entirely messed up these two terms. I am taking MethyFolate since today. In the previous months I was actually taking folic acid (the synthetic version)...

    I read about that some people have problems in converting the synthetic forms into their active forms, so I wanted to see the difference. Then there was this other post in this forum that decribes some of the effects of MethylB12 and that it should actually be combined with MethylFolate. I was thinking about it already for quite some time and after last week I had an extreme week with PMDD and I read that B6 might help, I thought it were time to try it now and ordered the MethylFolate together with it.

    The last months have been a nightmare, since I am almost doing nothing, watching my life going doing and not even really caring. Either I suffer extreme emotional distress (probably due to the hormonal disbalances because of the PMDD) or it is as if reality starts to slowly disappear more and more and I don't care at all.

    I think your hint at potassium could fit very well, since I am also quite low in appetite and the lethargy and tiredness even turned cooking and dish washing into a challenge. So that would of course enhance the potassium disbalance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 4:39 PM
  9. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Hi @Rita1979 - okay, it makes more sense now. Yes, many people (including me) have trouble converting folic acid into a useable form. My potassium dropped rather badly when I started taking methylfolate and fortunately I had read Freddd's posts about this so knew what to do. So starting methylfolate could very suddenly cause fatigue due to low potassium.

    Your supplements sound okay but I know we are all different and react differently, etc. I hope the potassium makes a difference for you. One good thing is you should know rather quickly if potassium is helping - I would drink a couple of glasses of tomato juice today and drink lots more tomorrow and see if you improve at all, it can take a couple of days and maybe consider a supplement, depending on how you do.
     
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  10. Basilico

    Basilico Senior Member

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    What form of iron supplementation are you using and how are you taking it (are you combining it with things that increase iron absorption)? I have a long history of iron deficiency anemia and have found a protocol that works well to raise my ferritin, just to see if you want any advice on this.
     
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  11. Rita1979

    Rita1979

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    @Mary Thank you :) I feel better now... I am not sure if this is due to the tomato juice or just my usual late night energy kick. It is the same most of the days. I wake up entirely broken, then I am fighting the fog in my head all day long and finally after being awake for at least 10 to 12 hours I start to feel calm with a clear mind.

    Today it was just so clear that maybe it was related to the supplements, since this morning I was quite motivated and at parts so "excited" that I was one the one hand very happy to feel energetic and on the other hand I was wondering how that way I could keep my chasing thoughts under control in order to be productive. But I was happy because finally there was some energy and I hoped for some good days. Then suddenly after I took my Vitamins I entirely dropped and went to bed. Interesting was that I was also yawning, which happens rarely and usually indicates something which for me feels like real tiredness instead of the exhaustion I usually feel.

    I am thinking about stopping most of the B vitamin supplements for some time, except one low (normal ;) ) dosed multivitamin. Last year when I started with the Vitabay 125 I could actually feel some improvement, but it has vanished and recently I thought that I feel better on days, when I don't take any supplements. Maybe I have to figure out which one it is.

    @Basilico Thank you :) As soon as my ferritin value was at thirty I thought it were fine and neglected iron more or less. Ocassionally I took 100mg of Fe2+ for few days. I tolerate it quite well. Sometimes I have a bit of stomach pain but this resolves quickly and doesn't happen too often. I managed to have my ferritin value to arrive at 40 µg/l but as soon as I stop supplementing regularly it drops again to 30 µg/l within few months. I started Vitamin A 25.000 iE in order increase iron absorption, I am also always taking it together with some vitamin C and the capsules themselves already contain Vitamin C. If I remember correctly B12 also enhances iron absorption.

    However, iron is my stepchild and the last blood test indicated with 30 µg/l that I have to return to supplementing iron. It is just so difficult to make it fit into my routine, since zinc and iron and copper and magnesium all interfere with each other.

    And now in the last blood results Hemoglobine, erythrocytes and hematocrit were all three below the reference range, while MCH, MCV and MCHC were normal. Since I clearly have some inflammation related problems that were increasing in the last months, it might well be that ferritin is actually lower.
     
    Mary likes this.
  12. Rita1979

    Rita1979

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    @Basilico so... :) Yes, I would like to hear your advice :) I am not sure if what I wrote above sounded like I were not interested... I thought I would answer your question about how and what I was doing first and then wait for your answer.

    So yes, I am very interested in the protocol that helped you :)
     

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