Dr. Bateman answers IOM questions from the community: Part 2
Clark Ellis brings us Part 2 of an interview with Dr. Lucinda Bateman, where she answered questions posed by the patient community …
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Very Sensitive to Mitochondrial Supplements. Why?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Sherpa, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. fngrpntr

    fngrpntr

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    Second thought. Was your energy normal before this all began? I trace my illness back to a couple of major "flu" episodes in my 30's. Based upon response to treatment, and some blood work showing past infections, I am, after 30 years of slowly declining health & energy, actually recovering with high-dose Valtrex & various antibiotics. Herbal protocols (search Buhner and Zhang for these) have also helped, although after a year on herbs I developed allergies to them.

    This might or might not make sense for you. Along with declining energy, I had frequent flu-like flare-ups which now appear to have been infections, since they have disappeared with treatment. But if I were you, I wouldn't rule out infections even without flare-ups. It could be that your immune system is still strong enough to keep an infection sub-clinical, but using up your energy.

    The easiest way to test this theory would be to just try some herbal remedies. If you herx (get briefly ill from them before getting better), or simply begin to feel better, then you'll have your answer.

    I used to be much more intolerant to all the "stimulating" fixes that you have talked about before I got onto these antimicrobrial protocols. It could be that the stimulating supplements were also feeding my infections---thus the reason for feeling better and then crashing. But now that I've been treating the infections for a few years (don't be frightened by this, I was much sicker than you are), I am able to handle the energizing supplements again.
     
    merylg likes this.
  2. fngrpntr

    fngrpntr

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    One more: I like this doctor as a resource for theory about energy dysfunction. Here is her post on the methylation cycle--a good overview:
    http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Methylation_Cycle

    Also, she just wrote a book about mitochondrial disfunction. Of all the CFS docs, she is the one specifically researching energy production, and has developed testing protocols to figure it out.

    "Diagnosing and treating Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: its mitochondria, not hypochondria"
    by Sarah Myhill
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1781610347/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
    merylg likes this.
  3. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic & adrenaline junkie

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    Great you are getting energy!

    I do eat red meat now but I was vegaterian / vegan (terrible idea) for 15 years.

    My serum tests show my ferritin and B12 levels as "normal" but I am responding well to B12.

    I am taking just the Enzymatic "Energy Revitalization System" (with 500mcg of and it is really helping me)
     
  4. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Hey @Sherpa not sure if you remember me but we have spoken a bunch of times on the CureZone boards when I had adrenal fatigue as well. I ended up taking phosphatidylserine and it messed me up something terrible, ultimately ended up being M.E., I have been declining rapidly since then.

    Anyway, being someone who was in the AF boat (still is) with you and now learning about this disease maybe i can give you some insight. I would definitely say you don't have CFS/ME which is an EXCELLENT thing. This disease is contrived from Satan himself. However, I feel like us AF people never heard anything about methylation but that could have been a huge help. I did the 23andme test and upon seeing my genetic mutations had one of those "aha, so this is why I'm as bad as I am" moments. Unfortunately it's a bit too late for me but I bet you would find some great benefit from seeing these results and then you would know exactly what to work on to get your detoxing back into full gear.

    Another thing you may want to look into is phosphatidycholine. A lot of people with fatigue syndromes have great success with this and I'm currently working.with a doctor who is a big supporter of this therapy. The quick and ugly run down is that toxins and oxidative stress and restrictive diets wear down your mitochondria and cellular membranes which blocks some of the Krebs Cycle functions therefore impairing energy production. Replacing the raw materials will allow you to regenerate and get everything up and running again.

    Methylation is complicated and trial and error it seems so you may benefit from trying the PC first and seeing how well that reduces your symptoms and causes less sensitivity to methylation supplements. You're on the home stretch man and I'm sure once you get this last piece of the puzzle in place you will be back to vibrant health you once had and the AF monster will be behind you.
     
    Sherpa likes this.
  5. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Valentijn likes this.
  6. stevesayshi

    stevesayshi

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    I strongly recommend C60 in olive oil for the symptoms you describe. It is a super-antioxidant among other things. There are a few sites that sell it. Dosing is. .. pretty much unknown at this point. Lots of testimonials on longecity.org forums.
     
  7. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic & adrenaline junkie

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    Okay,... I think I answered my own question almost 10 months later. I think I am sensitive to mitochondrial supplements because I have so much oxidative stress-induced cell membrane damage. Stimulating "broken" mitochondrial structures with accelerating nutrients is agonizing and inflammatory. I have been taking NT Factor EnergyLipids and eating good fats - trying to repair the damage. I think it is making me less sensitive. The easy way for me to check would be to take 50mg CoQ10 and see if it caused me to jump out of my skin (like it used to) or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  8. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    It's quite possible. The other quality brand for cell membrane repair is BodyBio Phosphatidylcholine. It's the highest quality PC out there but it's very expensive. That's what my doc had me on (as well as a high sat fat diet) to repair cell membranes. Good luck to you
     
    Sherpa likes this.
  9. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Hey also FWIW, you can have your cell membrane integrity and lipid break down tested. I did, that's the first thing my doc went after and despite being a personal trainer and nutritionist, my lipid profile was waaay off and showed significant cell membrane degradation. Its a test done under the Patricia Kane protocol. It's close to a $500 test, so not cheap, but if you or your doc think it's worth it you can find a practitioner on Patricia Kanes sight. Very, very detailed test.
     
  10. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    @Aerose91 .. what dose of PC were you on?
     
  11. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    High, I had to taper up to 10,000 mg/day and that's where I'm staying indefinitely
     
    aquariusgirl likes this.
  12. jason30

    jason30

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  13. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Jason

    In terms of quality those two are probably the best behind the BodyBio. I talked with my doctor recently about this since BodyBio PC is so expensive and if these were suitable alternatives. She said that PC should be at least 50% in order to make it through your GI tract without getting broken down. Those under will get broken down and you don't know if your body is reformulating it as PC or not. I trust her, but she is also bias toward BodyBio products because she likes me on super high quality stuff, but the BodyBio PC is ludicrously expensive.

    Off the bat though I would say both of those brands of PC are definitely better than none at all.
     
    jason30 likes this.
  14. jason30

    jason30

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    Thanks alot Aerose91. Noob question, 50% of what? :redface:
    Also, is Phosphatidylcholine always derived from Soy?
     
  15. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    A 50% or higher concentration of PC. The Jarrow is 35%, I'm not sure about the other one. BodyBio is 68% or something, Its the highest on the market but again, incredibly expensive.

    Most sources are soy but you can find sunflower lecithin out there. I think pretty much all the best quality brands are soy though, it's probably the cheapest.
     
    jason30 likes this.
  16. jason30

    jason30

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    That's clearly, thanks for the explanation.
     
  17. jason30

    jason30

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