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VERY interesting article from Dr. Myhill

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Mary, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    As many (probably most) of you know, Sarah Myhill is a doctor in the UK with a great deal of knowledge and experience re CFS. She has an excellent website with tons of info and does mitochondrial testing.

    Here's an article I received from her office yesterday, which is giving me great pause for thought:
    http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_Catastrophe_theory:_why_we_get_into_and_how_we_get_out_of_CFS

    It was written by one of her patients.

    I had mitochondrial testing done by Dr. Myhill close to 4 years ago (I'm in California - we did everything by FedEx). Results showed great abnormalities in ATP production and other values. She provided me with a suggested protocol to follow, which I did, except for magnesium injections. I talked to my doctor here in Thousand Oaks about mag. injections and he disparaged the idea (and he is very knowledgable about nutrition, supplements, etc.) He said taking oral magnesium was sufficient.

    After reading the above article, I did some more reading on Dr. Myhill's website (see http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Magnesium) about magnesium and she explains the difference between cellular and serum magnesium, and how the body will maintain serum magnesium at all costs to protect the heart, but adequate serum levels of magnesium are no indication of adequate magnesium levels inside the cell. and she believes that low intracellular magnesium is a cause of mitochondrial failure and the inability to convert ADP to ATP.

    And she further believes that magnesium injections are the best way (and maybe the only way) to raise cellular magnesium levels sufficiently.

    The author of the first article above had marked improvement after he injected a lot of magnesium (I don't know how much). Anyways, I'm going to get magnesium injections (to do myself) one way or another. The only downside is they are supposed to hurt (nothing's simple with this DD!) but I don't care. I've done horrible detoxing and survived - As I told my sister today, the only thing I haven't tried is painful injections - so why not give that a try! :)

    Mary
    L'engle, Wayne and Radio like this.
  2. South

    South Senior Member

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    Have you tried topical (applied to the skin) magnesium? Or is that inadequate for those who cannot absorb the swallowed kind?

    Some topical types are made with magnesium chloride, into a runny liquid. Sometimes called "magnesium oil", although it isn't actually oily.
  3. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Hi Soul - if you read Dr. Myhill's article (the 2nd link above) you'll see that she says that in her view injections are the best way to go. She does mention other options, but it sounds like the injections are best.

    I have used magnesium oil many times for sore muscles and joints - it works really well. It's also very drying to the skin, because of the solution it's in. I think it would take a ton of that stuff to do anything intracellularly - I don't know if it's even possible to get enough in the body that way.

    Epsom salt baths are another alternative, but again, Myhill thinks the injections are best. I have been sick too long, so am willing to endure the shots (at least I think I am!) And also after reading the first article I linked above, and how the author made a large improvement after doing a lot of magnesium by injection over one week-end, has inspired me to at least try the daily shots.

    Myhill also mentions a couple of other options for increasing magnesium - you can read the article - but again I think she still believes the injections are best.

    My body is working better than a couple of years ago, I recover from crashes more quickly, and after reading these articles, I looked at the hair analyses I've had done the past couple of years. 2 years ago my magnesium levels were nowhere near the normal range - were halfway down the chart on the bottom low section, so they were very low. Last year, my magnesium was right at the border between low and normal, so at the very bottom of the normal range, so it had improved. And, my body was working better. So this also really makes me wonder if low intracellular magnesium is why I can't get over crashing, and that is more impetus for me to give the injections a try.

    Mary
  4. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    I will be eager to hear of your results. I do really well for about 18 hours from pain after epsom salt baths (which is basically magnesium applied topically)... but every magnesium oil I've tried results in hives (ingrediants being water, magnesium and trace amounts of other elements - which is basically an epsom salt bath - go figure). Oral supplementation causes me great (and immediate) intestinal distress... so if injections help any individuals, it's worth investigating.

    I've had to give myself enoxapren (fragmin/lovenox) injections before which are really painful and frequently lead to lumps and horrid bruising. Not sure if it will help with pain on magnesium injection.. but for those other drugs, I would apply a cold pack for about 20 minutes before injecting. If it still stung (which that's what the drug did) - then I'd simply re-apply the cold pack after injecting. It didn't take longer to do the actual injection because I would simply put the cold pack into the waist of my pants while getting ready for work (since they were usually given in the stomach area). But doing the ice pack not only completely eliminated all discomfort - it would also contract the blood vessels ever so slightly which prevents lumps and bruises as well. I figure having a cold pack would be unlikely to run you into trouble, so it might be worth trying to see if it helps once you get started.
  5. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Thanks, Penny - that sounds like a very good tip for the injections. I did read somewhere about the possibility of lumps forming, in addition to the pain, so the cold packs make a lot of sense.

    I just googled "magnesium injections cfs" and found several links, including some to this site. The following one had a lot of good information in a lengthy post halfway down, and talks about making magnesium bicarbonate water (new to me). I may give that a try until I am able to get access to injections.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...vels-not-going-up-even-with-injections.14576/

    Mary
  6. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Senior Member

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    Magnesium injections could be lethal to your heart and/or shut down your kidneys if you overdo it. A much safer way is to use a variety of oral magnesium supplements.

    The late Dr. Herbert Mansmann was the director of the Magnesium Research Laboratory at Jefferson Medical College and also used magnesium supplements himself for various conditions. His website is no longer up but his articles have been saved and are posted on another site. A good place to start is here:

    http://barttersite.org/magnesium-supplementation-dosing/2

    To see all of his articles, go here:
    http://barttersite.org/category/articles-by-dr-mansmann

    Yes, it's a lot of reading. Good luck with everything.
  7. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Magesium injections in the presence of renal insufficiency can lead to mg intoxication. Also, It is not recommended for people with heart block or mycordial damage and myasthenia gravis.

    I took mg sulfate injections x3/week for years with no problems. I did not absorb mg from supplements.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  8. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Senior Member

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    Magnesium for injection is only available by prescription. How were you planning on handling that aspect?
    http://www.rxlist.com/magnesium-sulfate-drug.htm

    It took a long time for you to become deficient in magnesium. It will take a long time to replace your body's magnesium stores. Think of it as a marathon rather than a sprint.
  9. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    cfs_for_19_years - I was planning on getting a prescription. I know it's not an OTC product I did a little research and saw some of the dangers of magnesium injections but I've been taking magnesium orally for many years with scant results. My mag levels have gone up a little, but excruciatingly slowly. It's not a marathon, more of a crawl.

    I'm going to see Dr. Chia in Torrance on 12/31 - he's investigating the possibility of viruses being involved and I'm going to talk to him about the mag sulfate injections. My heart and kidneys are in good shape. I also have another doctor in Thousand Oaks I can discuss it with.

    And I am going to make that magnesium bicarbonate water mentioned in a post I linked above.

    Thanks for the links you provided for Dr. Mansmann's articles - I'll check them out!

    Mary
  10. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Mij: did the mg sulfate injections help you at all, or raise your mag levels?
  11. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Mary, I took shots of mg in combination with taurine. Yes they were very helpful, the most helpful treatment to date. My symptoms were similar to parkinsonism at the time, my head felt as though there was constant movement inside. My sleep was zero. I felt a difference just after one shot so my doctor allowed me to continue.

    I did not have my mg levels retested but my distressing symptoms went away.
  12. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    @Mary, I have had many IV magnesium infusions and they are wonderful. I don't understand what the fuss is about; they made me feel relaxed in a really nice, non-impaired way. Thank you for the reminder...now that I have moved I must find a place to start IV therapies again.


    ETA: Dr Myhill's site appears to be down at the moment.
  13. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Senior Member

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    Mary, you didn't mention seeing another doctor, so I wrongly assumed this would be a DIY project. My bad.

    Dr. Mansmann really knows his stuff as he treated himself with magnesium, so he knows firsthand what works.

    My understanding is that the body likes to have magnesium in many different forms, such as Mg gluconate, Mg malate, Mg oxide, Mg citrate, Mg lactate, etc. Dr. Mansmann lists a good variety in his recommendations.
  14. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Senior Member

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    The "fuss" is that too much magnesium can kill you. That's all.
  15. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    They say mag oil works for cellular restoration. I am about to find out this night!
  16. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Are you making it yourself? Dr. Myhill rec's Ancient Minerals which I can buy in Canada but I would rather make it myself. Does anyone know how?
  17. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Murcia, Spain
  18. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    I did the injections in 2007-08 after almost a year on Dr M. mitos protocol with no results. My intracellular Mg did not increase despite oral and transdermal supplementation including epsom salts bath. I then started injecting every day then every other day. I injected at night which helped with falling asleep. The injections were not painful as long as I added some lidocaine (supplied by Dr M)

    The injections had an immediate noticeable effect on energy levels as I started to be able to walk for a few minutes. That might seem not much but before I struggled to walk or just stand up for a few seconds. I injected at night which also helped with falling asleep.
    After a few months I started having side effects on my blood pressure which went a bit too low. For that reason later I reduced the injections to once a week. My intracellular Mg levels although slightly better never normalised even on the injections. And not even after adding phoschol which was supposed to increase absorption into cells and mitochondria.

    With hindsight it was a very infective way to correct cellular abnormalities that is low magnesium (and high calcium) but there were many other abnormalities. My intracellular Mg normalised only after dealing with the causes of those anomalies which were chronic infections and that happened with zero supplementation.
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  19. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    xrunner - Thanks for your input. Do you mind telling what your chronic infections were, and how you dealt with them?

    Mar
  20. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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